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There's a difference between using force within a legal framework (Proposition 8), and using extrajudicial force (cancel culture). And that difference is that

There's a difference between using force within a legal framework (Proposition 8), and using extrajudicial force (cancel culture). And that difference is that a sane instance (the law) can reject you if you're being insane, which did happen in the case of Proposition 8, but can't happen with cancel culture. So you're justifying the usage of extrajudicial force with an already rejected attempt to use judicial force. And you think that's fair, and you're the good guy.

CamperBob2 6y ago
'Cancel culture' isn't force, it's culture. That's why they call it 'cancel culture', and not 'cancel force.' Funny, it turns out a lot of people would rather not do business with racists, misogynists, homophobes, neo-Nazis, and assorted religious bigots, whodathunkit. Someone from the government showing up with a gun and telling me I can't marry a consenting adult of my choice is a much better example of the use of force. But you knew that. [1] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  > 'Cancel culture' isn't force, it's culture. That's why they call it 'cancel culture', and not 'cancel force.' Funny, it turns out a lot of people would rather not do business with racists, misogynists, homophobes, neo-Nazis, and assorted religious bigots, whodathunkit. Don't do business, sure, but harassing your political opponent's family and getting them fired still is culture and not force? And it can't even be both? And the best argument you can come up with is that it's not literally called "cancel force"? That seems reasonable. > Someone from the government showing up with a gun and telling me I can't marry a consenting adult of my choice Show me just one example of this happening today. Just one. You're grasping at straws here arguing based on arbitrarily defined semantics, things that never happened and randomly accusing me of trolling (that one's especially low), while ignoring the central point. To quote you, sounds like you've made up your mind on this issue.
  - CamperBob2 6y ago
    Show me just one example of this happening today. Just one. See https://www.claerygreen.com/Family-Law-Blog/2015/April/Filing-Taxes-for-Same-Sex-Married-Couples-in-Cal.aspx https://www.claerygreen.com/Family-Law-Blog/2015/April/Filin... . If Proposition 8 had been allowed to stand, and if a gay couple had claimed the state tax break reserved for heterosexual married couples, the state revenue agency would have rejected their return and demanded payment of the additional tax they owed, plus interest and penalties. Then, if the couple refused to pay, eventually someone with a gun would have come to their door. Try it yourself, if you don't believe me. It happens every day to people who refuse to pay their taxes. That's the very definition of "force." It's the only power a government ultimately has. And it's a much bigger deal than being harassed on Facebook. With Brendan Eich's help, a mob of seven million people attemped to bring this hypothetical scenario to life. Since then, the Trump administration has stocked the Federal courts with hundreds of far-right judges, including several rated 'unqualified' by the ABA, whom I suspect would have let the law stand. Hopefully we won't have to find out. If the next Brendan Eich refrains from trying to incorporate the Bible into state and Federal law because he's terrified of what might happen to his career, I'm OK with that. To quote you, sounds like you've made up your mind on this issue. That's a safe assumption.
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      If you need to preface it with "If X had happened" then it's not an example of something happening. > Since then, the Trump administration has stocked the Federal courts with hundreds of far-right judges, including several rated 'unqualified' by the ABA, whom I suspect would have let the law stand. Do you even realize how big of an assumption this is? "I suspect" is definitely not sufficient to justify ruining people's careers. To the contrary, it's emblematic of mob justice. > If the next Brendan Eich refrains from trying to incorporate the Bible into state and Federal law because he's terrified of what might happen to his career, I'm OK with that. First off, that's a really grandiose way to say "he donated $1000 to an unfashionable cause". Secondly, canceling is a pretty shitty way to fix this problem, don't you think? So shitty you might even call it counterproductive? You don't think this is going to lead to more bottled up hate down the road? You don't think this kind of thing is exactly what got Trump elected in the first place? Thirdly, and most importantly, cancel culture doesn't stop at Eich. People are getting canceled for far more harmless offenses than his. Because, same as Proposition 8, cancelers are nothing but a hate mob ascribing themselves moral superiority in order to justify their morally reprehensible actions, but unlike Proposition 8 no one even has the power to keep the mob in check. Regarding your last sentence - you obviously support gay marriage, do you think you're open minded? Are you really?

CamperBob2 6y ago

'Cancel culture' isn't force, it's culture. That's why they call it 'cancel culture', and not 'cancel force.' Funny, it turns out a lot of people would rather not do business with racists, misogynists, homophobes, neo-Nazis, and assorted religious bigots, whodathunkit. Someone from the government showing up with a gun and telling me I can't marry a consenting adult of my choice is a much better example of the use of force. But you knew that. [1] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning

read_if_gay_ 6y ago
> 'Cancel culture' isn't force, it's culture. That's why they call it 'cancel culture', and not 'cancel force.' Funny, it turns out a lot of people would rather not do business with racists, misogynists, homophobes, neo-Nazis, and assorted religious bigots, whodathunkit. Don't do business, sure, but harassing your political opponent's family and getting them fired still is culture and not force? And it can't even be both? And the best argument you can come up with is that it's not literally called "cancel force"? That seems reasonable. > Someone from the government showing up with a gun and telling me I can't marry a consenting adult of my choice Show me just one example of this happening today. Just one. You're grasping at straws here arguing based on arbitrarily defined semantics, things that never happened and randomly accusing me of trolling (that one's especially low), while ignoring the central point. To quote you, sounds like you've made up your mind on this issue.
- CamperBob2 6y ago
  Show me just one example of this happening today. Just one. See https://www.claerygreen.com/Family-Law-Blog/2015/April/Filing-Taxes-for-Same-Sex-Married-Couples-in-Cal.aspx https://www.claerygreen.com/Family-Law-Blog/2015/April/Filin... . If Proposition 8 had been allowed to stand, and if a gay couple had claimed the state tax break reserved for heterosexual married couples, the state revenue agency would have rejected their return and demanded payment of the additional tax they owed, plus interest and penalties. Then, if the couple refused to pay, eventually someone with a gun would have come to their door. Try it yourself, if you don't believe me. It happens every day to people who refuse to pay their taxes. That's the very definition of "force." It's the only power a government ultimately has. And it's a much bigger deal than being harassed on Facebook. With Brendan Eich's help, a mob of seven million people attemped to bring this hypothetical scenario to life. Since then, the Trump administration has stocked the Federal courts with hundreds of far-right judges, including several rated 'unqualified' by the ABA, whom I suspect would have let the law stand. Hopefully we won't have to find out. If the next Brendan Eich refrains from trying to incorporate the Bible into state and Federal law because he's terrified of what might happen to his career, I'm OK with that. To quote you, sounds like you've made up your mind on this issue. That's a safe assumption.
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    If you need to preface it with "If X had happened" then it's not an example of something happening. > Since then, the Trump administration has stocked the Federal courts with hundreds of far-right judges, including several rated 'unqualified' by the ABA, whom I suspect would have let the law stand. Do you even realize how big of an assumption this is? "I suspect" is definitely not sufficient to justify ruining people's careers. To the contrary, it's emblematic of mob justice. > If the next Brendan Eich refrains from trying to incorporate the Bible into state and Federal law because he's terrified of what might happen to his career, I'm OK with that. First off, that's a really grandiose way to say "he donated $1000 to an unfashionable cause". Secondly, canceling is a pretty shitty way to fix this problem, don't you think? So shitty you might even call it counterproductive? You don't think this is going to lead to more bottled up hate down the road? You don't think this kind of thing is exactly what got Trump elected in the first place? Thirdly, and most importantly, cancel culture doesn't stop at Eich. People are getting canceled for far more harmless offenses than his. Because, same as Proposition 8, cancelers are nothing but a hate mob ascribing themselves moral superiority in order to justify their morally reprehensible actions, but unlike Proposition 8 no one even has the power to keep the mob in check. Regarding your last sentence - you obviously support gay marriage, do you think you're open minded? Are you really?