5 ms·

Is the 737 MAX actually needed by anyone? With travel restrictions, people afraid of catching covid, economy crashing, and plenty of good competitor planes wit

Is the 737 MAX actually needed by anyone? With travel restrictions, people afraid of catching covid, economy crashing, and plenty of good competitor planes with better reputation, why would airlines need (or want) to buy these planes?

a5withtrrs 6y ago
Sure. Maybe not in 2020, or even 2021, but at some point travel is likely to resume to pre-COVID levels. How long that takes is anyones guess, but the desire for a more efficient aircraft to cram even more people inside of to save on costs will always be a priority for any (remaining) airlines.
- grosswait 6y ago
  In talk by United's president, he said they expect pre-COVID levels of travel not to return until 2027
  - belltaco 6y ago
    People are cooped up and want to travel, once the vaccine hits I think there will be a heavy demand for travel.
    - exhaze 6y ago
      Can you explain specifically what you makes you think that there will be heavy demand for travel, based on some facts?
      - whymauri 6y ago
        Frankly, I'm more interested in the evidence that it will take five - six years for the travel industry to bounce back to 2019 levels.
  - meddlepal 6y ago
    It may never return if biz travel suddenly becomes unnecessary because companies think they go do a lot of previously in-person stuff via video call.
    - tluyben2 6y ago
      I was flying all the time for 5 years because our partners, investors, clients etc demanded it. I had many weeks in those years where someone mailed on sunday that I was expected tuesday morning in HK and thursday in melbourne and then could be gone sunday. I live in EU so that's a nice haul for 1 week of business; quite painful with some kind of permanent jetlag. Then COVID arrived and now suddenly everything is easy over zoom, email & chat. Even now that travel is allowed again in a lot of places I was supposed to jump to inside EU, no-one asks for it anymore. Saves everyone bucketloads of money (I wasn't sitting in economy), much better for the environment, and, for most purposes that the travel was thought to be vital for, it's actually more efficient this way. People are well rested and progress is made faster as people are less likely to fall into the bullshit of lengthy business lunches/dinners and late night drinks (basically getting hammered which in some circles was mandatory otherwise they wouldn't play) etc. Most of the people I work with (and have worked with for years) don't assume they or I will have to fly, when it's allowed again, more than once a year. And I don't miss it; it was really tiring.
      - rantwasp 6y ago
        I tell her to meet me in Mexico, but I go to Canada. I don't trust her. Besides, I like the cold. Thirty years later, I get a postcard. I have a son and he's the chief of police. This is where the story gets interesting. I tell Tiffany to meet me in Paris by the Trocadero. She's been waiting for me all these years. She's never taken another lover. I don't care. I don't show up. I go to Berlin. That's where I stashed the chandelier.
        neonate 6y ago
        https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Perfect%20Crime https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Perfect%20Cr...
epanchin 6y ago
Travelling from the a regional airport in the UK to a regional airport in the US rather than transiting through a major hub in a different state will surely be in huge demand. Now seems like the ideal time to invest in these planes. Most people won’t care what metal they ride if it’s cheaper.
tankenmate 6y ago
For single shop airlines like Southwest they definitely need the 737 MAX (or whatever it will be renamed to).
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  They need 737s. Do they need the MAX specifically, though?
  - tankenmate 6y ago
    Well the big benefit of the MAX is the engines, and the new engines have a much bigger fan, which means a complete rearrangement of how the engines are mounted on the wing, and how that affects the wingbox, which means in effect yes, they need the MAX. Boeing before the MAX faced the dilemma of the successful 737 form factor, but the requirement for larger fans for more fuel efficiency. They had to toss up between a newer replacement model (complete with more ground clearance, new design which is about a decade long timeframe, with the osbourne effects etc) or shoehorn bigger fan engines on the 737, which is what the MAX is. In short if you want the ~15% improvement in fuel efficiency of modern engines with the 737 airframe you need a MAX. It is bordering on impossible for Boeing to take the 737 airframe any further after the MAX.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      That's an argument for "they will benefit from the MAX", not that they need it.
      - tankenmate 6y ago
        They do need it, they are a low cost airline that gets its main cost benefit by having only one supplier and one airframe. I guess you could say they don't need to be a low cost airline as well, but that statement would hold the same amount of weight as saying they don't need the MAX.
        6y ago
Robotbeat 6y ago
737 Max is very efficient per seat. Doubly important if you’re going to under fill each plane.
- xtracto 6y ago
  Sure thing. It takes only half the fuel to fly between two destinations. And it doesn't require the overhead of crew at the arrival airport
- CaptainZapp 6y ago
  Not when it's not allowed to take off.

a5withtrrs 6y ago

Sure. Maybe not in 2020, or even 2021, but at some point travel is likely to resume to pre-COVID levels. How long that takes is anyones guess, but the desire for a more efficient aircraft to cram even more people inside of to save on costs will always be a priority for any (remaining) airlines.

grosswait 6y ago
In talk by United's president, he said they expect pre-COVID levels of travel not to return until 2027
- belltaco 6y ago
  People are cooped up and want to travel, once the vaccine hits I think there will be a heavy demand for travel.
  - exhaze 6y ago
    Can you explain specifically what you makes you think that there will be heavy demand for travel, based on some facts?
    - whymauri 6y ago
      Frankly, I'm more interested in the evidence that it will take five - six years for the travel industry to bounce back to 2019 levels.
- meddlepal 6y ago
  It may never return if biz travel suddenly becomes unnecessary because companies think they go do a lot of previously in-person stuff via video call.
  - tluyben2 6y ago
    I was flying all the time for 5 years because our partners, investors, clients etc demanded it. I had many weeks in those years where someone mailed on sunday that I was expected tuesday morning in HK and thursday in melbourne and then could be gone sunday. I live in EU so that's a nice haul for 1 week of business; quite painful with some kind of permanent jetlag. Then COVID arrived and now suddenly everything is easy over zoom, email & chat. Even now that travel is allowed again in a lot of places I was supposed to jump to inside EU, no-one asks for it anymore. Saves everyone bucketloads of money (I wasn't sitting in economy), much better for the environment, and, for most purposes that the travel was thought to be vital for, it's actually more efficient this way. People are well rested and progress is made faster as people are less likely to fall into the bullshit of lengthy business lunches/dinners and late night drinks (basically getting hammered which in some circles was mandatory otherwise they wouldn't play) etc. Most of the people I work with (and have worked with for years) don't assume they or I will have to fly, when it's allowed again, more than once a year. And I don't miss it; it was really tiring.
    - rantwasp 6y ago
      I tell her to meet me in Mexico, but I go to Canada. I don't trust her. Besides, I like the cold. Thirty years later, I get a postcard. I have a son and he's the chief of police. This is where the story gets interesting. I tell Tiffany to meet me in Paris by the Trocadero. She's been waiting for me all these years. She's never taken another lover. I don't care. I don't show up. I go to Berlin. That's where I stashed the chandelier.
      - neonate 6y ago
        https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Perfect%20Crime https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Perfect%20Cr...

epanchin 6y ago

Travelling from the a regional airport in the UK to a regional airport in the US rather than transiting through a major hub in a different state will surely be in huge demand. Now seems like the ideal time to invest in these planes. Most people won’t care what metal they ride if it’s cheaper.

tankenmate 6y ago

For single shop airlines like Southwest they definitely need the 737 MAX (or whatever it will be renamed to).

ceejayoz 6y ago
They need 737s. Do they need the MAX specifically, though?
- tankenmate 6y ago
  Well the big benefit of the MAX is the engines, and the new engines have a much bigger fan, which means a complete rearrangement of how the engines are mounted on the wing, and how that affects the wingbox, which means in effect yes, they need the MAX. Boeing before the MAX faced the dilemma of the successful 737 form factor, but the requirement for larger fans for more fuel efficiency. They had to toss up between a newer replacement model (complete with more ground clearance, new design which is about a decade long timeframe, with the osbourne effects etc) or shoehorn bigger fan engines on the 737, which is what the MAX is. In short if you want the ~15% improvement in fuel efficiency of modern engines with the 737 airframe you need a MAX. It is bordering on impossible for Boeing to take the 737 airframe any further after the MAX.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    That's an argument for "they will benefit from the MAX", not that they need it.
    - tankenmate 6y ago
      They do need it, they are a low cost airline that gets its main cost benefit by having only one supplier and one airframe. I guess you could say they don't need to be a low cost airline as well, but that statement would hold the same amount of weight as saying they don't need the MAX.
      - 6y ago

Robotbeat 6y ago

737 Max is very efficient per seat. Doubly important if you’re going to under fill each plane.

xtracto 6y ago
Sure thing. It takes only half the fuel to fly between two destinations. And it doesn't require the overhead of crew at the arrival airport
CaptainZapp 6y ago
Not when it's not allowed to take off.