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Isle of Mann ... while they host a lovely motorbike race , it also has a reputation for being haven for some corporate dodginess. "According to union officials

Isle of Mann ... while they host a lovely motorbike race , it also has a reputation for being haven for some corporate dodginess. "According to union officials, CCL’s ownership structure is a company within a nest of shell companies" Yep ... it must be the scenery.

chrisseaton 6y ago
This is all just insinuation. Company outside the US? Likely a dodgy company. Pilots potentially not American? Likely dodgy pilots. What do you think the US does so differently to everyone else that means outsourcing the work will be worse quality?
- salawat 6y ago
  As much as I hate to draw attention to the man's article because on the one hand I really do think as a commentary on what the real cause of the 737 MAX incident was I think it's totally off the mark; but the article does highlight some cultural problems that exist in other parts of the world that could lead a reasonable reader to the conclusion that outsourcing is fraught given there's a chance of propagating bad habits abroad. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/magazine/boeing-737-max-crashes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/magazine/boeing-737-max-c... I emphasize I only offer it as a source of examples of bad airmanship recognized abroad. I still patently reject his conclusions of ultimate fault for the 737 MAX crashes. Given the choice between having the internal Boeing trainers mentioned in the article, or potentially delegating it to a contracted pilot with said deficient airmanship, without the context I personally have into the industry from extensive hobbyist research, I couldn't fault someone for being wary. Especially given experiences with outsourcing in other verticals. It's just not a move that makes sense in the current business world either unless I'm woefully out of date. Training pilots on proper aircraft operating technique should be part of Boeing's core competency. Since you really can't separate a highly technical product like an airliner from the dissemination of the skills and knowledge to use it. To be frank I think Boeing management is trying to pilot the company into a smoking crater. If I had voting rights capable of moving anything, I'd be looking at votes of no confidence across the management echelon.
- throwaway2048 6y ago
  If you want rock solid proof that the company they are outsourcing to sucks and quality is going to drop, you aren't going to find it because that's the entire point of this move. But ask yourself how many times quality has gone up after outsourcing critical operations to a group of shell companies based in a low regulation polity. Also ask yourself why a safety and reputation critical company seems to have a corporate structure indistinguishable from one used to dodge legal liability in tax evasion cases. How many leading aerospace companies do you think are based out of the Isle of Man? It does not even have a major airport.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > How many leading aerospace companies do you think are based out of the Isle of Man? It does not even have a major airport. I don't think they're doing the work on the Isle of Mann - that's just where the company happens to be registered.

chrisseaton 6y ago

This is all just insinuation. Company outside the US? Likely a dodgy company. Pilots potentially not American? Likely dodgy pilots. What do you think the US does so differently to everyone else that means outsourcing the work will be worse quality?

salawat 6y ago
As much as I hate to draw attention to the man's article because on the one hand I really do think as a commentary on what the real cause of the 737 MAX incident was I think it's totally off the mark; but the article does highlight some cultural problems that exist in other parts of the world that could lead a reasonable reader to the conclusion that outsourcing is fraught given there's a chance of propagating bad habits abroad. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/magazine/boeing-737-max-crashes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/magazine/boeing-737-max-c... I emphasize I only offer it as a source of examples of bad airmanship recognized abroad. I still patently reject his conclusions of ultimate fault for the 737 MAX crashes. Given the choice between having the internal Boeing trainers mentioned in the article, or potentially delegating it to a contracted pilot with said deficient airmanship, without the context I personally have into the industry from extensive hobbyist research, I couldn't fault someone for being wary. Especially given experiences with outsourcing in other verticals. It's just not a move that makes sense in the current business world either unless I'm woefully out of date. Training pilots on proper aircraft operating technique should be part of Boeing's core competency. Since you really can't separate a highly technical product like an airliner from the dissemination of the skills and knowledge to use it. To be frank I think Boeing management is trying to pilot the company into a smoking crater. If I had voting rights capable of moving anything, I'd be looking at votes of no confidence across the management echelon.
throwaway2048 6y ago
If you want rock solid proof that the company they are outsourcing to sucks and quality is going to drop, you aren't going to find it because that's the entire point of this move. But ask yourself how many times quality has gone up after outsourcing critical operations to a group of shell companies based in a low regulation polity. Also ask yourself why a safety and reputation critical company seems to have a corporate structure indistinguishable from one used to dodge legal liability in tax evasion cases. How many leading aerospace companies do you think are based out of the Isle of Man? It does not even have a major airport.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > How many leading aerospace companies do you think are based out of the Isle of Man? It does not even have a major airport. I don't think they're doing the work on the Isle of Mann - that's just where the company happens to be registered.