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This detail addresses none of the questions raised in the post. Either escaping these ten fetters confers a detachment from the world such that one no longer ne

This detail addresses none of the questions raised in the post. Either escaping these ten fetters confers a detachment from the world such that one no longer needs to change it, or one wants to share this state with the world and then has to grapple with those challenges identified in the post.

alexmingoia 6y ago
You’re right, I should have mentioned that the Buddha and the Tripitaka do talk about “what does someone do after being enlightened.” To sum it up, once someone is fully enlightened (arahant) they would either live as a monk (otherwise they’d still be attached to household fetters) or choose to die. In the Tripitaka there are not many examples of lay people who reach arahant stage. In the Milindapanha Buddha is supposedly asked directly whether layman can attain arahant stage, and he says "If a layman attains arahant-ship, only two destinations await him; either he must enter the Order that very day or else he must attain parinibbàna (nibanna upon death). It’s clear from Tripitaka that anyone could obtain arahant stage but obviously if you were free of ten fetters it would be seemingly impossible to live another lifestyle except one described as monastic. Unorthodox Buddhists (Mahayana, Tibetan, Zen, etc.) reject some or most of the orthodox concept of enlightenment. But IMO it’s telling that their alternative conception of enlightenment is both indescribable and lacking a systematic path to attain, which very much contradicts Buddha’s message (I’ve found the way and therefor I can tell you the way, and if you follow you will reach the destination as I have).
- rtikulit 6y ago
  Journey and destination are nondual.
rtikulit 6y ago
It has been my experience that at the point I no longer crave something, I have the most power and freedom to obtain it. This has included significant others, influence, jobs, money, love, etc. I think you can generalize this phenomenon to Buddhist enlightenment. (PS. I believe the original teachings of Buddhism are essential and valid, and the Zen model of enlightenment should not be interpreted as contradicting them.)

alexmingoia 6y ago

You’re right, I should have mentioned that the Buddha and the Tripitaka do talk about “what does someone do after being enlightened.” To sum it up, once someone is fully enlightened (arahant) they would either live as a monk (otherwise they’d still be attached to household fetters) or choose to die. In the Tripitaka there are not many examples of lay people who reach arahant stage. In the Milindapanha Buddha is supposedly asked directly whether layman can attain arahant stage, and he says "If a layman attains arahant-ship, only two destinations await him; either he must enter the Order that very day or else he must attain parinibbàna (nibanna upon death). It’s clear from Tripitaka that anyone could obtain arahant stage but obviously if you were free of ten fetters it would be seemingly impossible to live another lifestyle except one described as monastic. Unorthodox Buddhists (Mahayana, Tibetan, Zen, etc.) reject some or most of the orthodox concept of enlightenment. But IMO it’s telling that their alternative conception of enlightenment is both indescribable and lacking a systematic path to attain, which very much contradicts Buddha’s message (I’ve found the way and therefor I can tell you the way, and if you follow you will reach the destination as I have).

rtikulit 6y ago
Journey and destination are nondual.

rtikulit 6y ago

It has been my experience that at the point I no longer crave something, I have the most power and freedom to obtain it. This has included significant others, influence, jobs, money, love, etc. I think you can generalize this phenomenon to Buddhist enlightenment. (PS. I believe the original teachings of Buddhism are essential and valid, and the Zen model of enlightenment should not be interpreted as contradicting them.)