5 ms·

Just a question: How is 37Signals' "we did it, so can you, it's simple" any different than pg's "we did it, so can you, it's simple" approach? Is pg's approach

Just a question: How is 37Signals' "we did it, so can you, it's simple" any different than pg's "we did it, so can you, it's simple" approach? Is pg's approach tired as well? Actually curious because the only difference in my mind between the two in this respect is that they have slightly different definitions of "it".

hugh 18y ago
They've always struck me as being pretty similar. Although I guess pg plays down the "easy" bit more than 37signals does. Another difference: YC's business model is actually based on persuading lots of eager young folks to attempt "it", whereas 37signals ultimately doesn't give a damn whether you do or not. Not attempting to criticise anybody here, just making observations.
- aneesh 18y ago
  Continuing that line of reasoning, that makes 37signals the more "credible" source because they're unbiased. YC has a vested financial interest in lots of young people attempting "it". Now that doesn't have to mean it's not in your interests too ...
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
  - dhbradshaw 18y ago
    On the other hand, 37signals remains, for the most part, the story of one success. YC has the chance to participate in and collect experience from many.
    - alabut 18y ago
      "the story of one success" - only if you consider the company succeeding as their sole success. But another metric is to compare the number of successful products 37signals has put out. They've made a bunch of apps and most (all?) of them do very well in their respective areas (lots of paying customers!) because of the common development philosophy they share. In other words, when it comes to their ideas on how to build stuff well (a mix of agile programming and user-centered design they call Getting Real) they put their money where their mouths are. http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ http://gettingreal.37signals.com/
bdotdub 18y ago
I agree that "simple" is a lot less significant in pg's approach. 37signals touts that Basecamp was done in 10 hours a week, whereas pg's approach seems a lot more intense and arduous. 37signals believes that you don't need to overwork yourself to succeed.
mynameishere 18y ago
pg's essays aren't written at a grade-school level.
- run4yourlives 18y ago
  And? Just because something is explained simply doesn't make it any less true. As I suspected, it seems that there is not much more than a simple dislike for 37S behind many of these comments.
  - davidw 18y ago
    I think 37S is pretty cool, generally like their message, and love Ruby on Rails. However... there's something that gets annoying about their writing style and "aren't we clever" attitude (intended or not, it starts to sound that way after a while) after a while.
    - ph0rque 18y ago
      If that's all that is wrong with 37S, I'll happily continue reading their stuff.
      - davidw 18y ago
        So will I, of course, but at times I wish I could see a full, third party analysis of them and their success. "Get rich in just 10 hours a week" sure sounds seductive, but, for example, just how important was Rails in making them profitable? Without Rails, would they be able to work 4 day work weeks? In most companies I've ever worked for, the competition has been way too fierce to do stuff like that.
        dhh 18y ago
        Rails wasn't even released until 6 months after Basecamp was a out (and doing very well). It didn't really get popular until about 1-2 years later. By that time, Basecamp was doing incredibly well and we had released other products. As the creator of Rails, it's flattering to think that the framework had a big say in the success of 37signals, but I think it's role is generally overstated by people who happened to find us through the framework. The vast majority of our customers have no clue what Rails is and couldn't care less. It helped, surely, but so did many other things, like having a popular weblog, like writing a popular book on our approach, like speaking at conferences, etc.
michaelneale 18y ago
What I do like the 37s approach is they make money, and yet it is still (presumably) a nice place to work. Normally with startups, things can be fun, great, but sooner or later things settle down (get bought, have to be profitable) and thats when the best intentions go out the window, 37s seem to see this as a lifestyle. I admire that.

hugh 18y ago

They've always struck me as being pretty similar. Although I guess pg plays down the "easy" bit more than 37signals does. Another difference: YC's business model is actually based on persuading lots of eager young folks to attempt "it", whereas 37signals ultimately doesn't give a damn whether you do or not. Not attempting to criticise anybody here, just making observations.

aneesh 18y ago
Continuing that line of reasoning, that makes 37signals the more "credible" source because they're unbiased. YC has a vested financial interest in lots of young people attempting "it". Now that doesn't have to mean it's not in your interests too ...
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- dhbradshaw 18y ago
  On the other hand, 37signals remains, for the most part, the story of one success. YC has the chance to participate in and collect experience from many.
  - alabut 18y ago
    "the story of one success" - only if you consider the company succeeding as their sole success. But another metric is to compare the number of successful products 37signals has put out. They've made a bunch of apps and most (all?) of them do very well in their respective areas (lots of paying customers!) because of the common development philosophy they share. In other words, when it comes to their ideas on how to build stuff well (a mix of agile programming and user-centered design they call Getting Real) they put their money where their mouths are. http://gettingreal.37signals.com/ http://gettingreal.37signals.com/

bdotdub 18y ago

I agree that "simple" is a lot less significant in pg's approach. 37signals touts that Basecamp was done in 10 hours a week, whereas pg's approach seems a lot more intense and arduous. 37signals believes that you don't need to overwork yourself to succeed.

mynameishere 18y ago

pg's essays aren't written at a grade-school level.

run4yourlives 18y ago
And? Just because something is explained simply doesn't make it any less true. As I suspected, it seems that there is not much more than a simple dislike for 37S behind many of these comments.
- davidw 18y ago
  I think 37S is pretty cool, generally like their message, and love Ruby on Rails. However... there's something that gets annoying about their writing style and "aren't we clever" attitude (intended or not, it starts to sound that way after a while) after a while.
  - ph0rque 18y ago
    If that's all that is wrong with 37S, I'll happily continue reading their stuff.
    - davidw 18y ago
      So will I, of course, but at times I wish I could see a full, third party analysis of them and their success. "Get rich in just 10 hours a week" sure sounds seductive, but, for example, just how important was Rails in making them profitable? Without Rails, would they be able to work 4 day work weeks? In most companies I've ever worked for, the competition has been way too fierce to do stuff like that.
      - dhh 18y ago
        Rails wasn't even released until 6 months after Basecamp was a out (and doing very well). It didn't really get popular until about 1-2 years later. By that time, Basecamp was doing incredibly well and we had released other products. As the creator of Rails, it's flattering to think that the framework had a big say in the success of 37signals, but I think it's role is generally overstated by people who happened to find us through the framework. The vast majority of our customers have no clue what Rails is and couldn't care less. It helped, surely, but so did many other things, like having a popular weblog, like writing a popular book on our approach, like speaking at conferences, etc.

michaelneale 18y ago

What I do like the 37s approach is they make money, and yet it is still (presumably) a nice place to work. Normally with startups, things can be fun, great, but sooner or later things settle down (get bought, have to be profitable) and thats when the best intentions go out the window, 37s seem to see this as a lifestyle. I admire that.