3 ms·

Or you can learn about the magic and wield it.

by xfer 6y ago

TylerE 6y ago
I am a craftsman, not a tool maker.
- neltnerb 6y ago
  Yeah, I'm with you on that one. I would definitely not have created my own from scratch, and I even knew scheme at the time.
- TeMPOraL 6y ago
  A craftsman makes his own tools. Not all of them, but some, whenever they see a possible improvement, or their work is novel. It's the assembly line worker that doesn't, and sticks to using the company-provided "industry standard" tooling. The assembly line worker doesn't need to make custom tools, because he/she has no agency - the worker's role is just to close a feedback loop in a well-defined industrial process of mass manufacturing a fully specified end product.
  - neltnerb 6y ago
    I know a fair number of craftspeople. The only one who made their own tools was my brother, who wound his own heater coils for his glass annealing furnace because it was too expensive to buy. Similarly, the only time I design a custom LED light is if I cannot buy what I want. And I'm really good at designing LED lights, I've been doing it for fifteen years. If the goal is to make furniture, or a glass flask, or a pair of socks -- why would you think those skills overlap with the skills required to improve a band saw, build a torch head, or manufacture knitting needles? They're not even using the same broad area of skill. It is lucky that you can change software so easily, but I think calling anyone who doesn't feel it is a good use of their time to customize one tool instead of just using a different one an "assembly line worker" is quite insulting, mastering a tool doesn't necessarily require being able to manufacture it. I could not manufacture a pen but I'm pretty good at writing =P
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      By making your own tools I don't mean making your own knitting needles or torch head - though some do that too. I meant making custom workbenches, custom harnesses for the parts you're working on, modding the tools to be more ergonomic or to serve a different purpose than intended, etc. This is all "making your own tools" too. I have a woodworker in my family and from what I observed watching him at work, he mods his tools for ergonomics, and if the piece he's working on is tricky to use with his machines, he constructs the necessary affordances to make it easier. Similarly in programming, you won't get far if you only keep to what your IDE offers you out of the box. Configuring your IDE, writing scripts, writing software that automates your work - it's all part of the craft.
      - neltnerb 6y ago
        I wouldn't call anyone who doesn't feel it's worth the investment to customize something an "assembly line worker", it implies that they aren't doing creative work with the tool because they happen to be more focused on the project than the tool. It's just insulting and I don't get why you'd bother to go that far. I also don't know why you'd draw any kind of line at "modified own tool". Building your own 3d printer doesn't make you creative if you're using a kit, it's the parts you make that are creative or not. Classify based on what someone is doing with the tools, not the tools themselves, that's just a cargo cult.
        TeMPOraL 6y ago
        I admit the comment was phrased in an unnecessarily inflammatory way, and I apologize. The point wasn't to draw a line between "programmers - craftsmen" and "programmers - assembly line workers", but to highlight that programming is very much craftsmanship, and because of that, I disagree with the thought "I am a craftsman, not a tool maker" in the comment I replied to. A craft is almost by definition something that isn't streamlined to the point you can reasonably only focus on using tools you're provided. There's always a benefit in doing meta-work - work to make your work easier. This applies to programming much more than other crafts, because the skill set you need to build tools is literally the same as the one you use for working with those tools. Also note that the comment didn't say the assembly line workers aren't creative (though on a perfect assembly line they can't be creative at work, by definition) - but that the type of work doesn't leave much space for bottom-up improvement. > Building your own 3d printer doesn't make you creative if you're using a kit, it's the parts you make that are creative or not. If building your own 3D printer lets you shorten your iterations compared to your old process of sending CAD drawings to some company and waiting a couple of days, thus saving you effort and money, then building that printer from a kit is very much worthwhile and it's what I'd expect a craftsman would do. Too much focus on the work immediately in front of you is bad too (see also: greedy algorithms). This whole topic isn't an issue of creativity, but pragmatism.
- pengaru 6y ago
  I'd argue you're not a true craftsman until you've started making your own tools, or at least tailoring generalized ones, to better suit your personal workflow.

Or you can learn about the magic and wield it.

by xfer 6y ago

Or you can learn about the magic and wield it.

TylerE 6y ago

I am a craftsman, not a tool maker.

neltnerb 6y ago
Yeah, I'm with you on that one. I would definitely not have created my own from scratch, and I even knew scheme at the time.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
A craftsman makes his own tools. Not all of them, but some, whenever they see a possible improvement, or their work is novel. It's the assembly line worker that doesn't, and sticks to using the company-provided "industry standard" tooling. The assembly line worker doesn't need to make custom tools, because he/she has no agency - the worker's role is just to close a feedback loop in a well-defined industrial process of mass manufacturing a fully specified end product.
- neltnerb 6y ago
  I know a fair number of craftspeople. The only one who made their own tools was my brother, who wound his own heater coils for his glass annealing furnace because it was too expensive to buy. Similarly, the only time I design a custom LED light is if I cannot buy what I want. And I'm really good at designing LED lights, I've been doing it for fifteen years. If the goal is to make furniture, or a glass flask, or a pair of socks -- why would you think those skills overlap with the skills required to improve a band saw, build a torch head, or manufacture knitting needles? They're not even using the same broad area of skill. It is lucky that you can change software so easily, but I think calling anyone who doesn't feel it is a good use of their time to customize one tool instead of just using a different one an "assembly line worker" is quite insulting, mastering a tool doesn't necessarily require being able to manufacture it. I could not manufacture a pen but I'm pretty good at writing =P
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    By making your own tools I don't mean making your own knitting needles or torch head - though some do that too. I meant making custom workbenches, custom harnesses for the parts you're working on, modding the tools to be more ergonomic or to serve a different purpose than intended, etc. This is all "making your own tools" too. I have a woodworker in my family and from what I observed watching him at work, he mods his tools for ergonomics, and if the piece he's working on is tricky to use with his machines, he constructs the necessary affordances to make it easier. Similarly in programming, you won't get far if you only keep to what your IDE offers you out of the box. Configuring your IDE, writing scripts, writing software that automates your work - it's all part of the craft.
    - neltnerb 6y ago
      I wouldn't call anyone who doesn't feel it's worth the investment to customize something an "assembly line worker", it implies that they aren't doing creative work with the tool because they happen to be more focused on the project than the tool. It's just insulting and I don't get why you'd bother to go that far. I also don't know why you'd draw any kind of line at "modified own tool". Building your own 3d printer doesn't make you creative if you're using a kit, it's the parts you make that are creative or not. Classify based on what someone is doing with the tools, not the tools themselves, that's just a cargo cult.
      - TeMPOraL 6y ago
        I admit the comment was phrased in an unnecessarily inflammatory way, and I apologize. The point wasn't to draw a line between "programmers - craftsmen" and "programmers - assembly line workers", but to highlight that programming is very much craftsmanship, and because of that, I disagree with the thought "I am a craftsman, not a tool maker" in the comment I replied to. A craft is almost by definition something that isn't streamlined to the point you can reasonably only focus on using tools you're provided. There's always a benefit in doing meta-work - work to make your work easier. This applies to programming much more than other crafts, because the skill set you need to build tools is literally the same as the one you use for working with those tools. Also note that the comment didn't say the assembly line workers aren't creative (though on a perfect assembly line they can't be creative at work, by definition) - but that the type of work doesn't leave much space for bottom-up improvement. > Building your own 3d printer doesn't make you creative if you're using a kit, it's the parts you make that are creative or not. If building your own 3D printer lets you shorten your iterations compared to your old process of sending CAD drawings to some company and waiting a couple of days, thus saving you effort and money, then building that printer from a kit is very much worthwhile and it's what I'd expect a craftsman would do. Too much focus on the work immediately in front of you is bad too (see also: greedy algorithms). This whole topic isn't an issue of creativity, but pragmatism.
pengaru 6y ago
I'd argue you're not a true craftsman until you've started making your own tools, or at least tailoring generalized ones, to better suit your personal workflow.