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It seems to easy to reach enlightenment when you are living in a monastery with a bunch of dudes and no responsibilities but to "chop wood, carry water." But a
by dr_dshiv 6y ago
It seems to easy to reach enlightenment when you are living in a monastery with a bunch of dudes and no responsibilities but to "chop wood, carry water."
But an enlightenment philosophy that can help a father of 3 with a hard marriage and a fulltime job or two...?
Hmm, maybe the enlightment philosophy project will take a few thousand more years...
- seisvelas 6y agoThe Vimalakirti Sutra is about exactly this. Vimalakirti is a laymen householder who achieves enlightnment. Upon his passing, Buddha sends a bunch of spiritual masters and bodhisattva's to Vimalakirti's deathbed. Vimalakirti proceeds to chastise them for how useless their 'enlightenment' is when it doesn't help anyone in the real world, and is only a self centered quest to save one's ego from suffering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimalakirti_Sutra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vimalakirti_Sutra
- alfiedotwtf 6y agoWithin all these comments, to me this was the most enlightened.
- Balgair 6y agoThe Bhagavad Gita is similar to the OP's issues. It deals with the conflicts we all face in life and how to resolve our wants with our duties. It's not a very long read, actually. Note: Find a translation that works for you. Specifically, the word 'duty' meant something very different than it does today. I recommend : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1586380192/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1586380192&linkCode=as2&tag=stucosuccess&linkId=FSXA3GZUT5SFDAZ4 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1586380192/ref=as_li_tl?ie... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita EDIT: For a more western take, I'd also recommend the Bible's knowledge books: Ecclesiastics, Proverbs, and Job. Again, a good translation is essential here, but I'm not about to recommend that.
- disprofuse 6y agoYou should listen to the lecture “Stop trying to improve yourself.” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fqqE1BLvISI# https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fqqE1BLvISI#
- zabardasth 6y agoThere is also Vyadha Gita within Mahabharata. In it a sanyasi learns of enlightenment from a lowly butcher.
- darkerside 6y agoThat father's life of suffering is also a life with a sizable family that he had the privilege of supporting. That is enlightenment.
- tinco 6y agoWhat is enlightenment?
- darkerside 6y agoMy opinion is, it's realizing that your ego is an incredible temporary coincidence and that this doesn't make life meaningless but allows you to choose what meaning you want to give it. Your ego is no more special than the billions of other souls who have rejoined the collective unconsciousness of the universe, which makes us all one in the end.
- IncRnd 6y agoIt when you go beyond the body, mind, and senses and merge into the experience that That alone exists. Analysis will never reach that state.
- dr_dshiv 6y agoRealizing that we are all one, man. But as a continual process - you can't just experience that once and go right back into old habits.. Or you can bring it into everyday interactions with the world. Business, family, politics, science, technology - all the hard stuff. And it manifests as a cultural phenomenon as well an individual experience.
- vekker 6y agoI think the definitions and models (the four path model specifically) from the pragmatic dharma crowd are the most interesting by far. Mostly because they can be tested. It's (Theravada) Buddhism stripped of a lot of the religious dogma. They describe awakening as an actual, irreversible natural process that can be triggered by concentrating your awareness onto bare experience for a long enough time. Doing this intensively enough will bring about a "discontinuity" / cessation of space-time experience called a "fruition" (nirvana). Coming out of that discontinuity goes with a blissful "what was that?" feeling and some level of understanding of "ultimate reality", meaning a permanent perspective shift (instead of "I am seeing" and "I am hearing": in seeing there is merely the seen, in hearing the heard, etc...).
- plasticchris 6y agoMakes me think of the thich nhat hanh quote: There is a saying: If a tiger comes down off his mountain and goes to the lowlands, he will be caught by humans and killed. It means if a practitioner leaves his or her Sangha, it becomes difficult to continue the practice. Taking refuge in the Sangha is not a matter of devotion. It is a matter of practice.
- orasis 6y agoHouseholders can do it - we just have a different chop wood carry water.
- coldtea 6y ago>It seems to easy to reach enlightenment when you are living in a monastery with a bunch of dudes and no responsibilities but to "chop wood, carry water." Do you find it easy to confine yourself to a monastery with a bunch of dudes and no responsibilities but to "chop wood, carry water"? If so, why don't you take this "easy" path?
- dr_dshiv 6y agoBecause the challenges of marriage and kids and work present challenges for self improvement that are real opportunities for the growth of my soul. I can be happy to have a trainer that gives me such heavy weights to train with
- blablablerg 6y agoThis just sounds like rationalization of your own choices. It is easy to be judgemental about monks when you already think that your choices offer real opportunities for growth.
- dr_dshiv 6y agoThe key is to want what you have, no? My combo is bringing together stoic philosophy, perennial enlightenment philosophy (it's all one, man) with a design thinking and new thought mentality (manifesting reality). That's what works for me.
- bane 6y agoThe very underrated movie "Redbelt" kind of addresses it. It's not about enlightenment, but the challenges of following a warrior's ethos in a modern world. It includes job, money, friendship, legal, and marriage challenges and the main character struggles to stay true to himself and his code throughout. The ending scene is magnificent.
- Slow_Hand 6y agoSeconded.
- FalconSensei 6y agoI agree with you, in parts, but: actual philosophy and meditation is not meant for you to be more productive at your job, or not need sleep to be able to work extra hours, or anything like that. But it would help you worry less about things that can't be helped, and focus on this that can. It would help lessen the mental strain that we have for not being able to do more, or help us deal with the marriage problems in a way that it affects you less during your work hours. You still have to work, still have sickness, marriage problems. But being better at separating those things, and suffering less because of the problems, is really beneficial
- asdff 6y agoHave you ever lived in a place where you had to chop your own wood and carry your own water? Living at the mercy of nature itself. It can be as challenging and stressful as this whole society thing we put ourselves through, too.
- pacija 6y ago"chop wood, draw water" means "standard daily chores". Perhaps in context of HN and modern times it could be replaced with "drive to work, write code". It is not that our complicated lives prevent us from enlightenment. Quite the opposite, it is our lack of enlightenment that make our lives appear complicated. But what do I know, my only zen knowledge comes from C64 game Usagi Yojimbo I played some 30 years ago :)