4 ms·

FTP will only "disappear from the internet" in the sense that it will be eclipsed by alternative, better options like SFTP. The browser was always a piss-poor

FTP will only "disappear from the internet" in the sense that it will be eclipsed by alternative, better options like SFTP. The browser was always a piss-poor FTP client and I honestly don't believe that there are large number of people who were "on-boarded" to FTP because they first used it in the browser. It was simply a convenience if you needed to grab just 1-2 files and were already in the browser. Also browsers never implemented SFTP yet it had no issues with adoption. Lastly if people really want a FTP client in their browser I'm sure there will be an extension for them, I found SFTP extensions in <5 seconds of googling, if there is a demand I'm sure we will see FTP extension (if they don't already exist).

formerly_proven 6y ago
FTP fading away seems about as unlikely as SCP fading away. SCP is pretty much exactly RCP (from approximately 1980), but over an SSH channel instead of TCP sockets. SCP occupies the #2 spot on the "transferring files quickly" list, #1 is tarpipes (SCP ping/pongs once per file/directory, tarpipes don't), #3 is SFTP (ping/pongs about three per file, and ping/pongs per write call, which is limited to ~256 kB). (People say SCP is an ugly, outdated protocol, but it's actually rather nice, simple and pretty efficient, if what it does is what you need) By the way, big point of confusion: SFTP is "POSIX-like IO via RPC over SSH" (so, in a way, a lot like NFSv3, but over SSH, and generally done from userspace), FTPS is "FTP, but over SSL".
- otterley 6y ago
  Unfortunately, no file transfer protocol built atop ssh (scp, sftp, etc.) can have high throughput rates over high-latency links because ssh has a small, fixed TCP window size. There are high performance forks available like HPN-SSH but they are rarely used in practice. Currently, the highest performing remote file transfer that I’m aware of for most situations is HTTPS.
  - formerly_proven 6y ago
    True, and even on relatively good connections (e.g. gigabit with 10-20 ms latency) the difference between tarpipe, SCP and SFTP is quite telling.
JdeBP 6y ago
WWW browsers are definitely poor clients now, and they have been since at least 2016/2017 when I was adding some verbs to Bernstein publicfile's FTP server. * http://jdebp.uk./FGA/web-browser-ftp-hall-of-shame.html http://jdebp.uk./FGA/web-browser-ftp-hall-of-shame.html But they actually used to be much better than they are now. Netscape Navigator, and WWW browsers of the 1990s such as IBM's WebExplorer for OS/2, were quite happy with (the original) publicfile and other FTP servers, far more so than WWW browsers were in 2017 and are today. This is definitely not an "always" thing.

formerly_proven 6y ago

FTP fading away seems about as unlikely as SCP fading away. SCP is pretty much exactly RCP (from approximately 1980), but over an SSH channel instead of TCP sockets. SCP occupies the #2 spot on the "transferring files quickly" list, #1 is tarpipes (SCP ping/pongs once per file/directory, tarpipes don't), #3 is SFTP (ping/pongs about three per file, and ping/pongs per write call, which is limited to ~256 kB). (People say SCP is an ugly, outdated protocol, but it's actually rather nice, simple and pretty efficient, if what it does is what you need) By the way, big point of confusion: SFTP is "POSIX-like IO via RPC over SSH" (so, in a way, a lot like NFSv3, but over SSH, and generally done from userspace), FTPS is "FTP, but over SSL".

otterley 6y ago
Unfortunately, no file transfer protocol built atop ssh (scp, sftp, etc.) can have high throughput rates over high-latency links because ssh has a small, fixed TCP window size. There are high performance forks available like HPN-SSH but they are rarely used in practice. Currently, the highest performing remote file transfer that I’m aware of for most situations is HTTPS.
- formerly_proven 6y ago
  True, and even on relatively good connections (e.g. gigabit with 10-20 ms latency) the difference between tarpipe, SCP and SFTP is quite telling.

JdeBP 6y ago

WWW browsers are definitely poor clients now, and they have been since at least 2016/2017 when I was adding some verbs to Bernstein publicfile's FTP server. * http://jdebp.uk./FGA/web-browser-ftp-hall-of-shame.html http://jdebp.uk./FGA/web-browser-ftp-hall-of-shame.html But they actually used to be much better than they are now. Netscape Navigator, and WWW browsers of the 1990s such as IBM's WebExplorer for OS/2, were quite happy with (the original) publicfile and other FTP servers, far more so than WWW browsers were in 2017 and are today. This is definitely not an "always" thing.