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> The elections are happening, legislature legislates, judicial system is adjudicating, the military is following the constitution. "Collapse of democracy" doe

> The elections are happening, legislature legislates, judicial system is adjudicating, the military is following the constitution. "Collapse of democracy" doesn't impute lawlessness. The attempt to cripple the USPS under DeJoy was legal, for example. If the US continues its slide into authoritarianism, you can bet it will happen with the pretense of legality. But that aside, Trump has indicated that he won't honor the election result [1]. GP's link mentions that as well, and links to the article: > “Get rid of the ballots and you’ll have a very peaceful — there won’t be a transfer, frankly. There will be a continuation,” the president said. There are also many scenarios in which the election result leads us into Constitutionally uncharted territory. The Atlantic painted some plausible pictures recently [2], including a quote from a Trump campaign legal advisor about appointing electors that don't match a state's popular vote result: > According to sources in the Republican Party at the state and national levels, the Trump campaign is discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where Republicans hold the legislative majority. With a justification based on claims of rampant fraud, Trump would ask state legislators to set aside the popular vote and exercise their power to choose a slate of electors directly. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/23/us/politics/trump-power-transfer-2020-election.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/23/us/politics/trump-power-t... [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if...

DenisM 6y ago
> If the US continues its slide into authoritarianism, you can bet it will happen with the pretense of legality And how is this going to happen? The Constitution puts firm limits on the President's power, the Supreme court will not approve of anything contrary to that (no matter who appointed the justices), and the Congress is not going to change the constitution by a vote of 2/3rd. What is the mechanism of usurping power that you see?
- jakelazaroff 6y ago
  Trump gets re-elected, by hook or by crook, and spends the next four years continuing to dismantle political infrastructure? Republican congresspeople continue to rubber stamp his agenda and Democrats offer only token resistance? The courts that Trump and McConnell have spent the past four years packing only rule against the most flagrant of Constitutional violations? Trump has spent the last four years flagrantly breaking the law and suffered no real consequences. It strains credulity that he wouldn’t accelerate this with another four years and a solid Supreme Court majority.
  - DenisM 6y ago
    > Trump gets re-elected, by hook or by crook, and spends the next four years continuing to dismantle political infrastructure? He already had four years. What exactly did he dismantle? The courts, the congress, the senate, the elections, the state rights? Did anything change at all in the "political infrastructure"? > courts that Trump and McConnell have spent the past four years packing only rule against the most flagrant of Constitutional violations This trope is getting old. Justices are not puppets of their presidents. Sometime a conservative appointee turns out liberal and serves out their term long after the president is gone and forgotten. The terms "conservative" and "liberal" apply to justices only very loosely. I invite you to read opinions of, say, Justice Scalia [1] - he's not the freedom-crusher you imagine them to be. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas#Scalia's_dissent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas#Scalia's_dis...
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      > The courts, the congress, the senate, the elections, the state rights? Did anything change at all in the "political infrastructure"? He and the Senate have aggressively confirmed judges at all levels. He’s purged all but the most obsequious members of the executive branch. He started to gut the USPS and will continue after the election. He’s attempted in multiple ways to undermine the census, specifically to undercount minority residents. He’s sown misinformation about voting. He’s encouraged police and private citizens to intimidate voters at the polls. While not his own doing, he will take advantage of the 1982 consent decree that expired in 2018. > This trope is getting old. Justices are not puppets of their presidents. I never said they were “puppets”. But they’re obviously biased — otherwise, why would Mitch McConnell try to block so many of Obama’s nominees and confirm so many of Trump’s? A case in which the conservative bloc of the court voted to uphold a law prohibiting gay sex in a private residence does not support your assertion.

DenisM 6y ago

> If the US continues its slide into authoritarianism, you can bet it will happen with the pretense of legality And how is this going to happen? The Constitution puts firm limits on the President's power, the Supreme court will not approve of anything contrary to that (no matter who appointed the justices), and the Congress is not going to change the constitution by a vote of 2/3rd. What is the mechanism of usurping power that you see?

jakelazaroff 6y ago
Trump gets re-elected, by hook or by crook, and spends the next four years continuing to dismantle political infrastructure? Republican congresspeople continue to rubber stamp his agenda and Democrats offer only token resistance? The courts that Trump and McConnell have spent the past four years packing only rule against the most flagrant of Constitutional violations? Trump has spent the last four years flagrantly breaking the law and suffered no real consequences. It strains credulity that he wouldn’t accelerate this with another four years and a solid Supreme Court majority.
- DenisM 6y ago
  > Trump gets re-elected, by hook or by crook, and spends the next four years continuing to dismantle political infrastructure? He already had four years. What exactly did he dismantle? The courts, the congress, the senate, the elections, the state rights? Did anything change at all in the "political infrastructure"? > courts that Trump and McConnell have spent the past four years packing only rule against the most flagrant of Constitutional violations This trope is getting old. Justices are not puppets of their presidents. Sometime a conservative appointee turns out liberal and serves out their term long after the president is gone and forgotten. The terms "conservative" and "liberal" apply to justices only very loosely. I invite you to read opinions of, say, Justice Scalia [1] - he's not the freedom-crusher you imagine them to be. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas#Scalia's_dissent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas#Scalia's_dis...
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    > The courts, the congress, the senate, the elections, the state rights? Did anything change at all in the "political infrastructure"? He and the Senate have aggressively confirmed judges at all levels. He’s purged all but the most obsequious members of the executive branch. He started to gut the USPS and will continue after the election. He’s attempted in multiple ways to undermine the census, specifically to undercount minority residents. He’s sown misinformation about voting. He’s encouraged police and private citizens to intimidate voters at the polls. While not his own doing, he will take advantage of the 1982 consent decree that expired in 2018. > This trope is getting old. Justices are not puppets of their presidents. I never said they were “puppets”. But they’re obviously biased — otherwise, why would Mitch McConnell try to block so many of Obama’s nominees and confirm so many of Trump’s? A case in which the conservative bloc of the court voted to uphold a law prohibiting gay sex in a private residence does not support your assertion.