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Do you mean Maxwell or Maslows hierachy? I dont buy the argument that poor people have to break the rules. Of course in India you have correlation a lot of poo

Do you mean Maxwell or Maslows hierachy? I dont buy the argument that poor people have to break the rules. Of course in India you have correlation a lot of poor people and a lot of people evading the rules, but does this imply causation? Probably the causation is in the other direction. I believe weak and corrupt enforcement (the latter beeing the worst) leads to this. If you know the police will fine you anyway no matter what you do, some probably stop following the rules and then it becomes a culture.

SubuSS 6y ago
Welp you're right: Maslow's. Re breaking rules: I think it is more of a spectrum. As you become richer, you become more able to follow the 'nicer' rules. Poor people generally don't go around murdering for example, but I did see a lot of relatively smaller rules broken. I am sure there is a very human mix of laziness, mob mentality, corruption that feed into it - but his meta point is still true: Some rules are meant for privileged people. Unless the party line is that 'you should be willing to die for your morals': There are very few who live by this and I admire them a lot. But I like a more practical approach to life - meaning the above anecdote consoles me.
- andi999 6y ago
  Traffic rules are not for the privileged who can afford nice cars witj airbags and good medical care, the are more useful for the people who cant.
  - kops 6y ago
    Thankfully there is this virus going around and we can all see the correlation between the wealth of the people and their propensity to break rules.
    - andi999 6y ago
      What correlation do you observe? Where i am, it seems all rich and poor follow the rules (with some minor exceptions). I mean makes sense who wants to get sick?
      - imheretolearn 6y ago
        > What correlation do you observe? Where i am, it seems all rich and poor follow the rules (with some minor exceptions). I mean makes sense who wants to get sick? https://twitter.com/sheela2010/status/1309053011168288769?s=20 https://twitter.com/sheela2010/status/1309053011168288769?s=... This shows how difficult it is for the common man to follow the rules. I am sure the rich people in Mumbai are following social distancing.
analogist 6y ago
Ah yes, enforcing the law, which, “in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”
MisterBastahrd 6y ago
The rules are made by the rich for the benefit of the rich and applied in that manner. There's a reason a millionaire with a rape charge spends about a half hour at a police station and a poor person with the same charge won't see daylight until after his trial.
- jariel 6y ago
  Traffic laws especially are absolutely made for everyone as are most laws and social rules. The parable is upside down: The man was almost assuredly 'not late for his job' (though possibly), he was probably just driving the wrong way because he could, because that's what everyone else does, and it's the 'de facto' rule. If he and everyone else actually followed traffic rules - then they would all be less likely to be late, they would all be probably somewhat wealthier, especially if they followed the other rules as well. "He took a bribe to feed his family" - maybe - but we need to stop taking bribes. I think there's a good bit in Sam's point about why PG and Jessica were able to do it, but it also has to be taken in context: they were starting from a place of exceptional place, arguably from 'privilege' (is how some people would describe it).
  - Judgmentality 6y ago
    > If he and everyone else actually followed traffic rules - then they would all be less likely to be late, they would all be probably somewhat wealthier, especially if they followed the other rules as well. How does obeying traffic laws make you wealthier? Unless you're just referring to the cost of the infraction (assuming you get cited).
    - andi999 6y ago
      By getting less involved in accidents.
    - jariel 6y ago
      If everyone obeys the traffic laws, everyone saves time, every process in the country is more efficient, everyone is wealthier and safer. There are a ton of second order effects: + Considerably fewer accidents, meaning more efficient use of medical staff. + Considerably cheaper insurance (all things being equal) And tons of 3rd order effects: + A completely chaotic transportation system means it's probably difficult to transport a lot of things efficiently - and certain industrial systems may not be possible. + If people don't generally obey traffic rules, there are probably a ton of situations wherein driving would be literally too dangerous. The example is Germany: where they are very well socialized and follow the rules (even in auto making and quality) they can drive a zillion miles an hour on the highway, still relatively safely. You can't do that unless everyone plays the game. 'Intelligent Social Organization' is literally the foundation of civilization. It's not 'natural resources' that make us rich, it's our institutions, intergenerational intelligence and 'rules' of various kinds: social, legal, cultural upon which the former two artifacts depend. The irony of the parable is that the 'traffic cheater' may be doing something he 'needs to do' but it's that very activity which is limiting he and his own community's ability to be successful.

SubuSS 6y ago

Welp you're right: Maslow's. Re breaking rules: I think it is more of a spectrum. As you become richer, you become more able to follow the 'nicer' rules. Poor people generally don't go around murdering for example, but I did see a lot of relatively smaller rules broken. I am sure there is a very human mix of laziness, mob mentality, corruption that feed into it - but his meta point is still true: Some rules are meant for privileged people. Unless the party line is that 'you should be willing to die for your morals': There are very few who live by this and I admire them a lot. But I like a more practical approach to life - meaning the above anecdote consoles me.

andi999 6y ago
Traffic rules are not for the privileged who can afford nice cars witj airbags and good medical care, the are more useful for the people who cant.
- kops 6y ago
  Thankfully there is this virus going around and we can all see the correlation between the wealth of the people and their propensity to break rules.
  - andi999 6y ago
    What correlation do you observe? Where i am, it seems all rich and poor follow the rules (with some minor exceptions). I mean makes sense who wants to get sick?
    - imheretolearn 6y ago
      > What correlation do you observe? Where i am, it seems all rich and poor follow the rules (with some minor exceptions). I mean makes sense who wants to get sick? https://twitter.com/sheela2010/status/1309053011168288769?s=20 https://twitter.com/sheela2010/status/1309053011168288769?s=... This shows how difficult it is for the common man to follow the rules. I am sure the rich people in Mumbai are following social distancing.

analogist 6y ago

Ah yes, enforcing the law, which, “in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”

MisterBastahrd 6y ago

The rules are made by the rich for the benefit of the rich and applied in that manner. There's a reason a millionaire with a rape charge spends about a half hour at a police station and a poor person with the same charge won't see daylight until after his trial.

jariel 6y ago
Traffic laws especially are absolutely made for everyone as are most laws and social rules. The parable is upside down: The man was almost assuredly 'not late for his job' (though possibly), he was probably just driving the wrong way because he could, because that's what everyone else does, and it's the 'de facto' rule. If he and everyone else actually followed traffic rules - then they would all be less likely to be late, they would all be probably somewhat wealthier, especially if they followed the other rules as well. "He took a bribe to feed his family" - maybe - but we need to stop taking bribes. I think there's a good bit in Sam's point about why PG and Jessica were able to do it, but it also has to be taken in context: they were starting from a place of exceptional place, arguably from 'privilege' (is how some people would describe it).
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  > If he and everyone else actually followed traffic rules - then they would all be less likely to be late, they would all be probably somewhat wealthier, especially if they followed the other rules as well. How does obeying traffic laws make you wealthier? Unless you're just referring to the cost of the infraction (assuming you get cited).
  - andi999 6y ago
    By getting less involved in accidents.
  - jariel 6y ago
    If everyone obeys the traffic laws, everyone saves time, every process in the country is more efficient, everyone is wealthier and safer. There are a ton of second order effects: + Considerably fewer accidents, meaning more efficient use of medical staff. + Considerably cheaper insurance (all things being equal) And tons of 3rd order effects: + A completely chaotic transportation system means it's probably difficult to transport a lot of things efficiently - and certain industrial systems may not be possible. + If people don't generally obey traffic rules, there are probably a ton of situations wherein driving would be literally too dangerous. The example is Germany: where they are very well socialized and follow the rules (even in auto making and quality) they can drive a zillion miles an hour on the highway, still relatively safely. You can't do that unless everyone plays the game. 'Intelligent Social Organization' is literally the foundation of civilization. It's not 'natural resources' that make us rich, it's our institutions, intergenerational intelligence and 'rules' of various kinds: social, legal, cultural upon which the former two artifacts depend. The irony of the parable is that the 'traffic cheater' may be doing something he 'needs to do' but it's that very activity which is limiting he and his own community's ability to be successful.