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You're probably right about Graal, but there is no way that V8 has significantly more effort put into it than the JVM. At best, they're roughly similar, but I s

by dpratt 6y ago

You're probably right about Graal, but there is no way that V8 has significantly more effort put into it than the JVM. At best, they're roughly similar, but I suspect that the JVM has quite a bit more development time and effort put into it.

The_Colonel 6y ago
Yep, just work on all those advanced JVM garbage collectors with various performance characteristics and trade offs is unmatched elsewhere in the industry.
arghwhat 6y ago
I did not say that jvm historically hasn't gotten a lot of resources, but any innovation done there has been common knowledge for compiler developers for ages. V8 gets to benefit from all that research, while simultaneously having far more resources (now as well as for the past many years) to apply it, as well as do more of their own.
- dpratt 6y ago
  Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, it seems like you’re implying that the JVM, as of today, isn’t the source of a lot of research or innovation. If that’s true, you’re incorrect. There’s a _gigantic_ amount of money, time and people involved with it, arguably more than there ever has been, and it’s only getting bigger. While you’re correct that some of the knowledge that came out of building the implementation of the JVM has found its way into V8, there’s still cutting edge work being done into extremely sophisticated JIT complication (with graal, arguably the best in the world) and the recent work on GC is frankly stunning. With recent JVM versions running zgc, it’s typical to see sub-millisecond GC pauses, and that’s only going to improve as they add more collection outside of safepoints and adding generational logic to it. Net/net, while you’re correct that there’s a lot of innovation and resources behind v8 today and they’re doing fantastic work as well, don’t discount the JVM. Yes, Java itself isn’t a hugely interesting language, but the JVM is still arguably one of the most impressive bits of software ever produced and continues to be so.
  - wenc 6y ago
    > There’s a _gigantic_ amount of money, time and people involved with it, arguably more than there ever has been, and it’s only getting bigger. Just wondering why this is the case? Who are the sponsors for GC research? (HFT outfits?)

by dpratt 6y ago

The_Colonel 6y ago

Yep, just work on all those advanced JVM garbage collectors with various performance characteristics and trade offs is unmatched elsewhere in the industry.

arghwhat 6y ago

I did not say that jvm historically hasn't gotten a lot of resources, but any innovation done there has been common knowledge for compiler developers for ages. V8 gets to benefit from all that research, while simultaneously having far more resources (now as well as for the past many years) to apply it, as well as do more of their own.

dpratt 6y ago
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding you, it seems like you’re implying that the JVM, as of today, isn’t the source of a lot of research or innovation. If that’s true, you’re incorrect. There’s a _gigantic_ amount of money, time and people involved with it, arguably more than there ever has been, and it’s only getting bigger. While you’re correct that some of the knowledge that came out of building the implementation of the JVM has found its way into V8, there’s still cutting edge work being done into extremely sophisticated JIT complication (with graal, arguably the best in the world) and the recent work on GC is frankly stunning. With recent JVM versions running zgc, it’s typical to see sub-millisecond GC pauses, and that’s only going to improve as they add more collection outside of safepoints and adding generational logic to it. Net/net, while you’re correct that there’s a lot of innovation and resources behind v8 today and they’re doing fantastic work as well, don’t discount the JVM. Yes, Java itself isn’t a hugely interesting language, but the JVM is still arguably one of the most impressive bits of software ever produced and continues to be so.
- wenc 6y ago
  > There’s a _gigantic_ amount of money, time and people involved with it, arguably more than there ever has been, and it’s only getting bigger. Just wondering why this is the case? Who are the sponsors for GC research? (HFT outfits?)