4 ms·

“Overseeing elections” doesn’t really sound like something I want Facebook to do.

oneoff1777711 6y ago
Well then, neither is running anything other than a time stamped feed of posts from my friends, but they do far more than that already.
- Spivak 6y ago
  If literally all Facebook did was what you describe nothing would change about their effect on elections and public discourse.
  - smt88 6y ago
    They have an aggressive and dangerous recommendation algorithm that has proven easy to game by bad actors.
  - mcintyre1994 6y ago
    Facebook has studied extremism on their platform and they disagree: > The high number of extremist groups was concerning, the presentation says. Worse was Facebook’s realization that its algorithms were responsible for their growth. The 2016 presentation states that “64% of all extremist group joins are due to our recommendation tools” and that most of the activity came from the platform’s “Groups You Should Join” and “Discover” algorithms: “Our recommendation systems grow the problem.” https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-it-encourages-division-top-executives-nixed-solutions-11590507499 https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-it-encourages-di...
    - Spivak 6y ago
      I really don't know how you solve this problem because finding people like you is like the #2 reason you even join a social network. Same with IRL social networks. I can't even imagine how much worse my life without the online queer community, it only exists at all because these kinds of algorithms connect people who would never find each other IRL because of fear and physical separation. Plus this is a very narrow interpretation of the problem. The public discourse issues comes from friends, family, friends-of-friends sharing and spreading articles from the news, obviously fake rage-bait memes, and generally just having an audience for their opinions.
baby 6y ago
Unfortunately what is the alternative? Does every social network or forum after X users need to consider getting a disinformation center? The only other way to scale this is to make it illegal to spread disinformation, this way citizens can potentially police one another by suing one another. It happens in France for specific things, for example if you deny that the holocaust existed.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Spivak 6y ago
  I don't like your solution and it definitely wouldn't fly in the US but your statement of the problem is correct. This isn't a "Facebook", "Twitter", or "Reddit" problem -- they just happen to be the companies with enough users for the problem to surface. I'm not really sure what people expected to happen in a digital pseudo-public square.
  - baby 6y ago
    I know it wouldn't fly in the US, as seen per the downvotes I'm receiving, but people also say a lot of other things we see in Europe wouldn't fly in the US, and yet we see more and more discussions about these things here (drug legalization, free education, universal healthcare, gun ban, no death penalty, etc.)
- Nightshaxx 6y ago
  Well then what constitutes misinformation? Is speculation misinformation? Are opinions misinformation? How does misinformation differ from someone exercising their right to free speech, but miswording what they say? I think that is a slippery slope. In fact you just described communist russia where the government would get citizens to turn each other in for saying the wrong thing(this can easily be used for nefarious purposes). You are now allowing the government to suppress less-popular opinions by labeling them misinformation.
  - baby 6y ago

Well then, neither is running anything other than a time stamped feed of posts from my friends, but they do far more than that already.

Spivak 6y ago
If literally all Facebook did was what you describe nothing would change about their effect on elections and public discourse.
- smt88 6y ago
  They have an aggressive and dangerous recommendation algorithm that has proven easy to game by bad actors.
- mcintyre1994 6y ago
  Facebook has studied extremism on their platform and they disagree: > The high number of extremist groups was concerning, the presentation says. Worse was Facebook’s realization that its algorithms were responsible for their growth. The 2016 presentation states that “64% of all extremist group joins are due to our recommendation tools” and that most of the activity came from the platform’s “Groups You Should Join” and “Discover” algorithms: “Our recommendation systems grow the problem.” https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-it-encourages-division-top-executives-nixed-solutions-11590507499 https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-knows-it-encourages-di...
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I really don't know how you solve this problem because finding people like you is like the #2 reason you even join a social network. Same with IRL social networks. I can't even imagine how much worse my life without the online queer community, it only exists at all because these kinds of algorithms connect people who would never find each other IRL because of fear and physical separation. Plus this is a very narrow interpretation of the problem. The public discourse issues comes from friends, family, friends-of-friends sharing and spreading articles from the news, obviously fake rage-bait memes, and generally just having an audience for their opinions.

baby 6y ago

Unfortunately what is the alternative? Does every social network or forum after X users need to consider getting a disinformation center? The only other way to scale this is to make it illegal to spread disinformation, this way citizens can potentially police one another by suing one another. It happens in France for specific things, for example if you deny that the holocaust existed.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Spivak 6y ago
I don't like your solution and it definitely wouldn't fly in the US but your statement of the problem is correct. This isn't a "Facebook", "Twitter", or "Reddit" problem -- they just happen to be the companies with enough users for the problem to surface. I'm not really sure what people expected to happen in a digital pseudo-public square.
- baby 6y ago
  I know it wouldn't fly in the US, as seen per the downvotes I'm receiving, but people also say a lot of other things we see in Europe wouldn't fly in the US, and yet we see more and more discussions about these things here (drug legalization, free education, universal healthcare, gun ban, no death penalty, etc.)
Nightshaxx 6y ago
Well then what constitutes misinformation? Is speculation misinformation? Are opinions misinformation? How does misinformation differ from someone exercising their right to free speech, but miswording what they say? I think that is a slippery slope. In fact you just described communist russia where the government would get citizens to turn each other in for saying the wrong thing(this can easily be used for nefarious purposes). You are now allowing the government to suppress less-popular opinions by labeling them misinformation.
- baby 6y ago