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> I feel he removed some of his legal protection by being so actively involved in hunting for government secrets. > I don't believe that, because I think the a

> I feel he removed some of his legal protection by being so actively involved in hunting for government secrets. > I don't believe that, because I think the actual case against him has merit. > He broke his own operational "security" code of staying above the fray by being such an active participant in the acquisition of state secrets. The manning case in particular is an area where I believe he crossed the line and was actively assisting and encouraging Manning. Enough with the hand waving. This is a technical forum where you're writing for people who are familiar with things like NTLM and hashing. Let's talk facts. Assange is being charged due to the following instant message conversation. > Manning: any good at lm hash cracking? > Assange: yes > Assange: <continuing conversation, goes off on a short tangent about wikileaks funding> > Assange: we have rainbow tables for lm. > Manning: 80c11049faebf441d524fb3c4cd5351c > Manning: I think it's lm + lmnt > Manning: anyway... > Manning: need sleep :yawn: > Manning: not even sure if that's the hash... I had to hexdump a SAM file, since I don't have the system file... > Assange: what makes you think it's lm? > Assange: its from a SAM? > Manning: yeah > Assange: passed it onto our lm guy > Manning: thx Then, 2 days later after a long discussion about wikileaks and intelligence agencies and other leaks. > Assange: any more hints about this lm hash? > Assange: no luck so far And that's the end of it. Whole conversation here: https://emma.best/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/2010-03-05-to-2010-03-18-CM-JA-log.pdf https://emma.best/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/2010-03-05-to-2... Is this a CFAA violation? No hashes were cracked. No additional access was had. He maybe put in a half-hearted attempt to crack a hash. To me, this is not being "actively involved" in "hunting for government secrets." edit: I think it speaks volumes that this is the best thing they can find to stick him with.

Drip33 6y ago
> Is this a CFAA violation? No hashes were cracked Cracking hashes alone is not a crime or I'd be in jail.
- bb88 6y ago
  Sure, but what was the intent? Did you crack a hash as some part of a computer contest? Or were you helping someone crack the hash with the intent to get access to a US DoD government computer? The way the law is apparently written, the first is not illegal. The second would be conspiracy.
  - Drip33 6y ago
    Neither but yes you're right for both.
- CrazyPyroLinux 6y ago
  weev went to jail for adding 1 to a number on a URL... They can do anything they want to you if they decide to...
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    Despite obvious differences both in societal import and trivial details, weev's case was like a practice run for Assange's. Not only is the government using the same playbook, but the character assassins in traditional and social media are as well.
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    It’s a little more complicated than that... He didn’t just visit URLs, but downloaded that data, saved it, and posted it up somewhere else. Regardless of the “hacking” charge, posting people’s data is taking it too far. If he had just used it as a POC, that’d be different.
meroes 6y ago
Actually the charges are 49 pages long and go all the way back to conversations from his youth when he was a minor. Your post is a red herring as it is obvious the prosecution is using more than this one conversation make its case. And he is being charged with much more than conspiracy to intrude into govt computer systems so again your post is way too narrow. For me personally, HN has failed to show how this case is uniquely more perverse than the run of the mill "he stole a pencil when he was a youth" vs "he talked about reading generals' emails at 17" (for Assange) - it's the norm in the US legal system. Is this the first case that awakened HN to how unjust our legal system is? I can't help but feel that is where most of the outrage comes from. Not the specifics of this case, which look terrible for Assange (not saying it's his fault they look terrible but they do). Protestors are being charged with a possible sentence of 6 mo to 99 years right now. That kind of discretion and ambiguity is disgusting but it is a feature. They can get Assange for anything just like an "hacker" could be jailed for bypassing an API. I'm sorry but the legal system and our laws are unjust. But don't channel everything through Assange and make it seem like this is anything new. They have him in their crosshairs, you and I are lucky it's not our turn. Why is it Assange's? Maybe to chill future dissent and fact based journalism, maybe this executive branch has something specific to fear. ----- Wikileaks canary dumps' dencryption keys were never published. In 2016-2017 something happened. Idk why Assange never published them, but it's possible wikileaks was comprised by the US govt early on in the Trump admin or late Obama admin. Maybe someone has more knowledge on this part.
- me_me_me 6y ago
  > They have him in their crosshairs, you and I are lucky it's not our turn. Why is it Assange's? Maybe to chill future dissent and fact based journalism, maybe this executive branch has something specific to fear. Its obvious why they go after every single leaker, to prevent anyone else from following their example. 'You want to be a hero? You will end up like Snowden, or Assange or tortured in prison outside of US soil.
malwarebytess 6y ago
So this is the crux of the reason they've imprisoned and tortured him for nearly a decade is it? Makes it all the more frustrating when people try to defend what the United States Government has done to hide their crimes for which they have yet to be held accountable.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  Assange was not tortured or imprisoned for a decade. He voluntarily entered and remained in the embassy to avoid legal criminal proceedings, and that gambit failed.
  - charwalker 6y ago
    To avoid criminal charges beginning with sexual assault and rape allegations, I think, not from the US. Which may have been a tactic to extradite him before other charges but as others have said here, he is a terrible personality to have in this situation as he's polarizing and contentious at the best of time. When groups like the ACLU have pushed issues via lawsuits its often with a very specific, media attention perfect client like Rosa Parks who cannot be vilified or attacked for a past criminal record or documented issues with society and law enforcement. Not because those people don't deserve representation but because their cases were too easy to strike down and prevent progress on the underlying issue. We see this today with so many validating the killing of George Floyd because of a past criminal record or recent behavior without eve considering if those actions deserved a death sentence or night in jail. It's sad but it's true.
    - gamblor956 6y ago
      To avoid criminal charges beginning with sexual assault and rape allegations, I think, not from the US. Which may have been a tactic to extradite him before other charges The Swedish rape case would have made it more difficult for the US to extradite Assange, as that case would have had priority in the UK (since it was first in time, and more importantly, actually proceeding when Assange went into isolation), and Sweden is less likely to extradite to the US than the UK. When groups like the ACLU have pushed issues via lawsuits its often with a very specific, media attention perfect client like Rosa Parks who cannot be vilified or attacked for a past criminal record or documented issues with society and law enforcement. I see that you are unfamiliar with the actual history of the ACLU, which has also defended neo-nazis/white supremacists, Larry Flynt, self-described terrorists, and other degenerates in precedent-setting cases.
bb88 6y ago
> Assange: passed it onto our lm guy To me the question is, is that conspiracy? Even if he made only a half hearted attempt, wasn't it still an attempt in case he got lucky with the password hash? Granted, IANAL, but 18 USC 1030(b) does have language for conspiracy [1]. It's worth noting that conspiracy can exist whether or not there was any actual trespass. This is similar to conspiracy to commit murder, e.g. The murder does not need to have happened in order to be convicted of conspiracy to commit murder. And that appears to be the way the law is written here. [1] https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-ccips/legacy/2015/01/14/ccmanual.pdf https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-ccips/l...

Drip33 6y ago

> Is this a CFAA violation? No hashes were cracked Cracking hashes alone is not a crime or I'd be in jail.

bb88 6y ago
Sure, but what was the intent? Did you crack a hash as some part of a computer contest? Or were you helping someone crack the hash with the intent to get access to a US DoD government computer? The way the law is apparently written, the first is not illegal. The second would be conspiracy.
- Drip33 6y ago
  Neither but yes you're right for both.
CrazyPyroLinux 6y ago
weev went to jail for adding 1 to a number on a URL... They can do anything they want to you if they decide to...
- jessaustin 6y ago
  Despite obvious differences both in societal import and trivial details, weev's case was like a practice run for Assange's. Not only is the government using the same playbook, but the character assassins in traditional and social media are as well.
- colejohnson66 6y ago
  It’s a little more complicated than that... He didn’t just visit URLs, but downloaded that data, saved it, and posted it up somewhere else. Regardless of the “hacking” charge, posting people’s data is taking it too far. If he had just used it as a POC, that’d be different.

meroes 6y ago

Actually the charges are 49 pages long and go all the way back to conversations from his youth when he was a minor. Your post is a red herring as it is obvious the prosecution is using more than this one conversation make its case. And he is being charged with much more than conspiracy to intrude into govt computer systems so again your post is way too narrow. For me personally, HN has failed to show how this case is uniquely more perverse than the run of the mill "he stole a pencil when he was a youth" vs "he talked about reading generals' emails at 17" (for Assange) - it's the norm in the US legal system. Is this the first case that awakened HN to how unjust our legal system is? I can't help but feel that is where most of the outrage comes from. Not the specifics of this case, which look terrible for Assange (not saying it's his fault they look terrible but they do). Protestors are being charged with a possible sentence of 6 mo to 99 years right now. That kind of discretion and ambiguity is disgusting but it is a feature. They can get Assange for anything just like an "hacker" could be jailed for bypassing an API. I'm sorry but the legal system and our laws are unjust. But don't channel everything through Assange and make it seem like this is anything new. They have him in their crosshairs, you and I are lucky it's not our turn. Why is it Assange's? Maybe to chill future dissent and fact based journalism, maybe this executive branch has something specific to fear. ----- Wikileaks canary dumps' dencryption keys were never published. In 2016-2017 something happened. Idk why Assange never published them, but it's possible wikileaks was comprised by the US govt early on in the Trump admin or late Obama admin. Maybe someone has more knowledge on this part.

me_me_me 6y ago
> They have him in their crosshairs, you and I are lucky it's not our turn. Why is it Assange's? Maybe to chill future dissent and fact based journalism, maybe this executive branch has something specific to fear. Its obvious why they go after every single leaker, to prevent anyone else from following their example. 'You want to be a hero? You will end up like Snowden, or Assange or tortured in prison outside of US soil.

malwarebytess 6y ago

So this is the crux of the reason they've imprisoned and tortured him for nearly a decade is it? Makes it all the more frustrating when people try to defend what the United States Government has done to hide their crimes for which they have yet to be held accountable.

gamblor956 6y ago
Assange was not tortured or imprisoned for a decade. He voluntarily entered and remained in the embassy to avoid legal criminal proceedings, and that gambit failed.
- charwalker 6y ago
  To avoid criminal charges beginning with sexual assault and rape allegations, I think, not from the US. Which may have been a tactic to extradite him before other charges but as others have said here, he is a terrible personality to have in this situation as he's polarizing and contentious at the best of time. When groups like the ACLU have pushed issues via lawsuits its often with a very specific, media attention perfect client like Rosa Parks who cannot be vilified or attacked for a past criminal record or documented issues with society and law enforcement. Not because those people don't deserve representation but because their cases were too easy to strike down and prevent progress on the underlying issue. We see this today with so many validating the killing of George Floyd because of a past criminal record or recent behavior without eve considering if those actions deserved a death sentence or night in jail. It's sad but it's true.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    To avoid criminal charges beginning with sexual assault and rape allegations, I think, not from the US. Which may have been a tactic to extradite him before other charges The Swedish rape case would have made it more difficult for the US to extradite Assange, as that case would have had priority in the UK (since it was first in time, and more importantly, actually proceeding when Assange went into isolation), and Sweden is less likely to extradite to the US than the UK. When groups like the ACLU have pushed issues via lawsuits its often with a very specific, media attention perfect client like Rosa Parks who cannot be vilified or attacked for a past criminal record or documented issues with society and law enforcement. I see that you are unfamiliar with the actual history of the ACLU, which has also defended neo-nazis/white supremacists, Larry Flynt, self-described terrorists, and other degenerates in precedent-setting cases.

bb88 6y ago

> Assange: passed it onto our lm guy To me the question is, is that conspiracy? Even if he made only a half hearted attempt, wasn't it still an attempt in case he got lucky with the password hash? Granted, IANAL, but 18 USC 1030(b) does have language for conspiracy [1]. It's worth noting that conspiracy can exist whether or not there was any actual trespass. This is similar to conspiracy to commit murder, e.g. The murder does not need to have happened in order to be convicted of conspiracy to commit murder. And that appears to be the way the law is written here. [1] https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-ccips/legacy/2015/01/14/ccmanual.pdf https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/criminal-ccips/l...