4 ms·
This specifically hurts foreign PhD students, because it routinely takes longer than four years to graduate from a PhD program. Considering some graduate stude
by Nbox9 6y ago
This specifically hurts foreign PhD students, because it routinely takes longer than four years to graduate from a PhD program. Considering some graduate students are overwhelmingly foreign (81% for Electrical Engineering, 69% for statistics, even Agricultural Engineering is majority foreign), what will this do for science and engineering? Will these students study someplace else, will they continue to study in the US regardless of this change, or will they simply be less educated.
If they study someplace else then the US loses some competitive advantage of attracting highly educated and motivated individuals into the country where they often stay.
If they simply don’t become as educated then the entire world suffers as the envelop of science and engineering isn’t pushed by as many minds. Having more PhD electrical engineers in the world is a critical piece to having more and better electronics in the world.
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign-students-and-graduate-stem-enrollment https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign...
- bleepblorp 6y agoCutting the numbers of foreign PhD students is very likely the point. There is a widespread view inside Washington that allowing foreign advanced degree students hurts US competitiveness because they "steal" US knowledge to take back to their home countries.
- the_svd_doctor 6y agoThat would make sense. 4 years is the right number to “not really” hurt UG and MS but for sure hurt all PhDs.
- echelon 6y agoThen give them incentives to become US citizens! Why aren't we brain draining our competitors? We had the perfect setup to do so. Now we may be too unattractive and too long gone.
- bleepblorp 6y agoMost foreign students aren't white. Letting them stay in America doesn't play well in states that have a deficit of educated people and a surplus of electoral college votes.
- true_religion 6y agoWow, that’s definitely something that needs to change then. It’s shooting yourself in the foot to deny the usefulness of other human beings simply because they are not European. That said... there is a historical record of people complaining about Irish, Polish, Italian, Greek, and Spanish immigrants. Essentially every wave of immigration has been met with hostility. So it seems the whole they are not X like us, is just an excuse.
- thatfrenchguy 6y agoAnd yet they're basically super cheap labor compared to their skills that will probably stay in the US afterwards.
- foogazi 6y agoHow much do PhD students make ? are US citizens incentivized enough to go the PhD route vs a foreign student whose only path to the US is the PhD program?
- Nbox9 6y agoAs a PhD student this is heavily dependent on what grants you can get. Glass door says the average student salary is $27k, so $5k less than median salary in the US and less than half of what a high school teacher makes. A PhD graduate makes, on average, ~$100K, which is within 10% of the average Software Engineer salary. There are a lot of incentives to become a phd for us citizens. You can be called doctor. You have some level of social prestige. You can specialize in something that really interests you. Some jobs that might be appealing require a PhD. The cash incentives aren’t there. There are faster paths for larger pots fo money. For perspective PhD students I recommend The PhD grind. If that doesn’t scare you away than maybe it’s the right path for you. Link to a discussion about the book. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4179982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4179982 Dump of links where I got my dollar figures from. https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/us-phd-student-salary-SRCH_IL.0,2_IN1_KO3,14.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/us-phd-student-salary-SRC... https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/central.html https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Doctorate_(PhD)/Salary https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Doctorate_(PhD)/... https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/high-school-teacher/salary https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/high-school-teach...