5 ms·

Its a scam. There is no evidence for any of this. Why are you shilling it here?

loceng 6y ago
Maybe you should provide evidence if it's a scam - countering their research, etc - e.g. Finding legitimate research from researchers who have used same process and fetal stem cells but couldn't reproduce the results; unfortunately you'll be hard pressed to find that research in part because very few places are doing research with fetal stem cells due to local laws due to religious-political stigma associated with fetal stem cells. Obviously it's easy to label something a scam if you've not actually looked into the details and because "it sounds too good to be true." Maybe watch some of the videos to see qualitative data from people treated to at least see that part of it if you're not going to dig deep into their research.
- cpncrunch 6y ago
  There is no research showing that stem cells are effective for these conditions. That's why it's a scam.
  - loceng 6y ago
    I just pointed you to a clinic in the Ukraine who 30 years ago initially did 5 years research before clinically offering fetal stem cell treatments for 25 years - where their research, and I'd recommend you read through their site + you can email to ask them for whatever evidence or 3rd party research by others they could point you to to satisfy you. Edit to add: or even better for actual experiential learning - find someone with MS who's searching for non-harmful solutions and have them do it, be close to them before to know their quality of life intimately, perhaps go with them for treatment, and then be with them after closely to see how/if they have improvements that you can see + that they report. I'm guessing you didn't watch the documentary on YouTube yet either - otherwise that's some amazing acting by patients and their local doctors. They have other videos on their site as well.
    - gjm11 6y ago
      This https://quackwatch.org/research-projects/stemcell/ https://quackwatch.org/research-projects/stemcell/ isn't encouraging. The fact that they've been running for 30 years proves nothing. See e.g. https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/quackery/hoxsey-hoax https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/quackery/hoxsey-hoax for another example. Anything's possible. But without much better evidence than these guys seem to be offering, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Your "even better" suggestion seems pretty ridiculous to me, by the way. "Want to know whether this thing that seems like a ghoulish fraud preying on people desperate for a cure is real or not? All you have to do is find someone with the disease they claim to be able to cure, persuade them to go and do this costly, risky, probably fraudulent thing, and see what they say about their quality of life is afterwards!" And even if they do manage to persuade someone to do that -- all they get is an n=1 single sample, which is pretty hopeless evidence for anything, especially for a disease like multiple sclerosis which commonly comes and goes in mysterious ways.

Maybe you should provide evidence if it's a scam - countering their research, etc - e.g. Finding legitimate research from researchers who have used same process and fetal stem cells but couldn't reproduce the results; unfortunately you'll be hard pressed to find that research in part because very few places are doing research with fetal stem cells due to local laws due to religious-political stigma associated with fetal stem cells. Obviously it's easy to label something a scam if you've not actually looked into the details and because "it sounds too good to be true." Maybe watch some of the videos to see qualitative data from people treated to at least see that part of it if you're not going to dig deep into their research.

cpncrunch 6y ago
There is no research showing that stem cells are effective for these conditions. That's why it's a scam.
- loceng 6y ago
  I just pointed you to a clinic in the Ukraine who 30 years ago initially did 5 years research before clinically offering fetal stem cell treatments for 25 years - where their research, and I'd recommend you read through their site + you can email to ask them for whatever evidence or 3rd party research by others they could point you to to satisfy you. Edit to add: or even better for actual experiential learning - find someone with MS who's searching for non-harmful solutions and have them do it, be close to them before to know their quality of life intimately, perhaps go with them for treatment, and then be with them after closely to see how/if they have improvements that you can see + that they report. I'm guessing you didn't watch the documentary on YouTube yet either - otherwise that's some amazing acting by patients and their local doctors. They have other videos on their site as well.
  - gjm11 6y ago
    This https://quackwatch.org/research-projects/stemcell/ https://quackwatch.org/research-projects/stemcell/ isn't encouraging. The fact that they've been running for 30 years proves nothing. See e.g. https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/quackery/hoxsey-hoax https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/quackery/hoxsey-hoax for another example. Anything's possible. But without much better evidence than these guys seem to be offering, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. Your "even better" suggestion seems pretty ridiculous to me, by the way. "Want to know whether this thing that seems like a ghoulish fraud preying on people desperate for a cure is real or not? All you have to do is find someone with the disease they claim to be able to cure, persuade them to go and do this costly, risky, probably fraudulent thing, and see what they say about their quality of life is afterwards!" And even if they do manage to persuade someone to do that -- all they get is an n=1 single sample, which is pretty hopeless evidence for anything, especially for a disease like multiple sclerosis which commonly comes and goes in mysterious ways.