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Sadly, he has not shown himself to be a trustworthy actor.

by w_t_payne 6y ago

1over137 6y ago
True. But neither has the USA. The USA has a long history of interfering in elections. ex the 1996 Russian election.
- jlgaddis 6y ago
  Indeed. Pretty much the first thing the CIA achieved was overthrowing a foreign government.
- imglorp 6y ago
  In that election, it sounds like Clinton endorsed Yeltsin and pushed the IMF to lend the Russian government some money; is that about right, or was there something dirtier? There's no comparing that to all the hacking, tampering, psy-ops on social media, and general sowing of public unrest the Russians are accused of in '16 and currently. About 2 orders of magnitude difference? To the general point however, of the US interfering in other governments, yes absolutely, US has run assassinations, overthrows, insurgent support, and lots of other stuff we'll never learn of.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Why are you comparing the actions the US admitted to doing with the actions Russia is accused of doing? The US manipulated the IMF to give a 10.3 billion dollar loan, and then advised Yeltsin to use that money to buy votes. The US stalled election watch dogs and prevented them from realizing their duties fully. The US sent intelligence agents to Russia to advise Yeltsin on what his tactics should be, and as we have already seen they were highly fraudulent. The US absolutely was as involved, if not more, in meddling with the 1996 Russian elections as Russia was in 2016. Just because the tactics weren't the same - Yeltsin had already seized control of the media to use it to give himself good coverage, and there was already public unrest - doesn't mean what the US did has a lesser magnitude.
    - imglorp 6y ago
      Because in one case, if allegations are true, thousands of people are sick, hurt, and dead in the chaos. In the other case, another bad man is elected as normal.
      - newen 6y ago
        Mass-privatization and dismantling of the government in Russia (that was done with strong influence and election tampering by the US) caused increase in poverty, increase in death rates, lowering of life expectancy in Russia. A lot of people in Russia died due to US election tampering. This is a under discussed topic in the West.
        thrwway34 6y ago
        Let's discuss it then, but first I need some sources on 'A lot of people in Russia died due to US election tampering' I know that a lot of people in Russia survived because of humanitarian aid from US though.
        newen 6y ago
        This is just one study [1]. There are plenty of others. Mass privatization killed a lot of people in Russia. It’s already been publicly admitted by US politicians that the Russian elections were influenced and tampered with by the US as discussed in above threads. I’m sure you’ve heard a lot of things that put the US in a positive light. That’s great but doesn’t say anything except that the US says a lot of good things about themselves. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5459934/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5459934/
        thrwway34 6y ago
        Don't shift the goalposts, I've asked for sources on 'A lot of people in Russia died due to US election tampering'
- cuillevel3 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Russian_presidential_election#Allegations_of_American_interference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Russian_presidential_elec... That doesn't sound too bad?
  - dariusj18 6y ago
    That's the kind of election interference I can get behind. If Russia decided to just start giving us oil, or we created some mutually beneficial joint effort to deal with Iran or N. Korea. That would be a good thing over all and the world would be a better place if we all went around doing good things to spread our country's influence.
    - aszen 6y ago
      and what about the people who voted in that election. do they have any say in their own countries matters, or are just to believe american influence is good for them
      - dariusj18 6y ago
        I'm not exactly sure what you are asking.
Jimmc414 6y ago
Who are the trustworthy actors in global politics?
- w_t_payne 6y ago
  Well, all nations act in their own interests, but it is generally possible to identify win-win outcomes and work together for mutual benefit. However, as the (former) spouse of a diplomat, I got the distinct impression that it was only really the Russians who were deliberately trying to screw things up for everyone else, just to cause mischief. I guess they are stuck in a mental rut where every situation is seen as win/lose, even when that's not the truth of the matter.

Sadly, he has not shown himself to be a trustworthy actor.

1over137 6y ago

True. But neither has the USA. The USA has a long history of interfering in elections. ex the 1996 Russian election.

jlgaddis 6y ago
Indeed. Pretty much the first thing the CIA achieved was overthrowing a foreign government.
imglorp 6y ago
In that election, it sounds like Clinton endorsed Yeltsin and pushed the IMF to lend the Russian government some money; is that about right, or was there something dirtier? There's no comparing that to all the hacking, tampering, psy-ops on social media, and general sowing of public unrest the Russians are accused of in '16 and currently. About 2 orders of magnitude difference? To the general point however, of the US interfering in other governments, yes absolutely, US has run assassinations, overthrows, insurgent support, and lots of other stuff we'll never learn of.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  Why are you comparing the actions the US admitted to doing with the actions Russia is accused of doing? The US manipulated the IMF to give a 10.3 billion dollar loan, and then advised Yeltsin to use that money to buy votes. The US stalled election watch dogs and prevented them from realizing their duties fully. The US sent intelligence agents to Russia to advise Yeltsin on what his tactics should be, and as we have already seen they were highly fraudulent. The US absolutely was as involved, if not more, in meddling with the 1996 Russian elections as Russia was in 2016. Just because the tactics weren't the same - Yeltsin had already seized control of the media to use it to give himself good coverage, and there was already public unrest - doesn't mean what the US did has a lesser magnitude.
  - imglorp 6y ago
    Because in one case, if allegations are true, thousands of people are sick, hurt, and dead in the chaos. In the other case, another bad man is elected as normal.
    - newen 6y ago
      Mass-privatization and dismantling of the government in Russia (that was done with strong influence and election tampering by the US) caused increase in poverty, increase in death rates, lowering of life expectancy in Russia. A lot of people in Russia died due to US election tampering. This is a under discussed topic in the West.
      - thrwway34 6y ago
        Let's discuss it then, but first I need some sources on 'A lot of people in Russia died due to US election tampering' I know that a lot of people in Russia survived because of humanitarian aid from US though.
        newen 6y ago
        This is just one study [1]. There are plenty of others. Mass privatization killed a lot of people in Russia. It’s already been publicly admitted by US politicians that the Russian elections were influenced and tampered with by the US as discussed in above threads. I’m sure you’ve heard a lot of things that put the US in a positive light. That’s great but doesn’t say anything except that the US says a lot of good things about themselves. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5459934/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5459934/
        thrwway34 6y ago
        Don't shift the goalposts, I've asked for sources on 'A lot of people in Russia died due to US election tampering'
cuillevel3 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Russian_presidential_election#Allegations_of_American_interference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Russian_presidential_elec... That doesn't sound too bad?
- dariusj18 6y ago
  That's the kind of election interference I can get behind. If Russia decided to just start giving us oil, or we created some mutually beneficial joint effort to deal with Iran or N. Korea. That would be a good thing over all and the world would be a better place if we all went around doing good things to spread our country's influence.
  - aszen 6y ago
    and what about the people who voted in that election. do they have any say in their own countries matters, or are just to believe american influence is good for them
    - dariusj18 6y ago
      I'm not exactly sure what you are asking.

Jimmc414 6y ago

Who are the trustworthy actors in global politics?

w_t_payne 6y ago
Well, all nations act in their own interests, but it is generally possible to identify win-win outcomes and work together for mutual benefit. However, as the (former) spouse of a diplomat, I got the distinct impression that it was only really the Russians who were deliberately trying to screw things up for everyone else, just to cause mischief. I guess they are stuck in a mental rut where every situation is seen as win/lose, even when that's not the truth of the matter.