8 ms·
Putin says Russia and U.S. should agree not to meddle in each other's elections
- w_t_payne 6y agoSadly, he has not shown himself to be a trustworthy actor.
- 1over137 6y agoTrue. But neither has the USA. The USA has a long history of interfering in elections. ex the 1996 Russian election.
- jlgaddis 6y agoIndeed. Pretty much the first thing the CIA achieved was overthrowing a foreign government.
- imglorp 6y agoIn that election, it sounds like Clinton endorsed Yeltsin and pushed the IMF to lend the Russian government some money; is that about right, or was there something dirtier? There's no comparing that to all the hacking, tampering, psy-ops on social media, and general sowing of public unrest the Russians are accused of in '16 and currently. About 2 orders of magnitude difference? To the general point however, of the US interfering in other governments, yes absolutely, US has run assassinations, overthrows, insurgent support, and lots of other stuff we'll never learn of.
- sudosysgen 6y agoWhy are you comparing the actions the US admitted to doing with the actions Russia is accused of doing? The US manipulated the IMF to give a 10.3 billion dollar loan, and then advised Yeltsin to use that money to buy votes. The US stalled election watch dogs and prevented them from realizing their duties fully. The US sent intelligence agents to Russia to advise Yeltsin on what his tactics should be, and as we have already seen they were highly fraudulent. The US absolutely was as involved, if not more, in meddling with the 1996 Russian elections as Russia was in 2016. Just because the tactics weren't the same - Yeltsin had already seized control of the media to use it to give himself good coverage, and there was already public unrest - doesn't mean what the US did has a lesser magnitude.
- imglorp 6y agoBecause in one case, if allegations are true, thousands of people are sick, hurt, and dead in the chaos. In the other case, another bad man is elected as normal.
- newen 6y agoMass-privatization and dismantling of the government in Russia (that was done with strong influence and election tampering by the US) caused increase in poverty, increase in death rates, lowering of life expectancy in Russia. A lot of people in Russia died due to US election tampering. This is a under discussed topic in the West.
- thrwway34 6y agoLet's discuss it then, but first I need some sources on 'A lot of people in Russia died due to US election tampering' I know that a lot of people in Russia survived because of humanitarian aid from US though.
- newen 6y agoThis is just one study [1]. There are plenty of others. Mass privatization killed a lot of people in Russia. It’s already been publicly admitted by US politicians that the Russian elections were influenced and tampered with by the US as discussed in above threads. I’m sure you’ve heard a lot of things that put the US in a positive light. That’s great but doesn’t say anything except that the US says a lot of good things about themselves. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5459934/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5459934/
- thrwway34 6y agoDon't shift the goalposts, I've asked for sources on 'A lot of people in Russia died due to US election tampering'
- cuillevel3 6y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Russian_presidential_election#Allegations_of_American_interference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Russian_presidential_elec... That doesn't sound too bad?
- dariusj18 6y agoThat's the kind of election interference I can get behind. If Russia decided to just start giving us oil, or we created some mutually beneficial joint effort to deal with Iran or N. Korea. That would be a good thing over all and the world would be a better place if we all went around doing good things to spread our country's influence.
- Jimmc414 6y agoWho are the trustworthy actors in global politics?
- w_t_payne 6y agoWell, all nations act in their own interests, but it is generally possible to identify win-win outcomes and work together for mutual benefit. However, as the (former) spouse of a diplomat, I got the distinct impression that it was only really the Russians who were deliberately trying to screw things up for everyone else, just to cause mischief. I guess they are stuck in a mental rut where every situation is seen as win/lose, even when that's not the truth of the matter.
- inamberclad 6y agommhm.
- Joker_vD 6y agoWhat, and let the Russian authoritarian regime to keep going to legitimize itself with its rigged voting system? To stop sponsoring the pro-democracy activists in Russia? No, it's the Russians who should simply cease their meddling with the elections in the US, stop promoting the hatred, confusion, and intolerance in the US public, that's for the first step. Then the Kremlin should actually allow the pro-democratic forces in the Russia to come to power, form the government that would be dedicated to democracy and liberty and protection of the human rights, and reform the stagnating economics, and cease foreign military escapades (and return the annexed territories to their rightful owners: Crimea, Donbass, South Abkhazia, Kuril islands, Königsberg, Karelia, the list goes on and on), that's for the second step. Only after that it would even start to make sense to demand from the US to "not meddle" in Russian elections. Until all that happens, demanding from the US to stop its support for democracy and human rights in on of the most illiberal modern authoritarian regimes is simply disgusting and cannot be met with anything more than scornful refusal.
- ETHisso2017 6y agoRussia has nukes. Russia is not going to knuckle under
- vbezhenar 6y agoIt's nice to see how some western people want to tear apart Russia. Makes me believe that Putin is not that bad, at least he wants Russia to be a strong independent country, even if his methods sometimes are questionable. No, you won't tear apart Russia as long as nuclear weapons are ready to launch.
- dangus 6y agoIf he’s “not that bad” why is he dictator for life? His methods are always questionable! E.g. poisoning opposition leaders. (And by the way, the need or ability or justification to criticize Russia’s adversaries doesn’t excuse Russia from criticism: i.e. I’m aware that the western world does unfair things, but Russia is a pure dictatorship)
- nswest23 6y ago...meddle in russian "elections"
- st1x7 6y agoHe's just trolling at this point.
- Cantbekhan 6y agoAs someone who still appreciates the "art of trolling". This is indeed quite possibly one of the greatest trollings ever.
- crocodiletears 6y agoAnd artfully so.
- aritmo 6y agoPutin insinuates that the U.S. has ever meddled in the Russian elections?
- XzAeRosho 6y agoI mean, there's a long track of the US meddling in other countries elections [1], so I wouldn't rule out attempts to countries like Russia. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
- me_me_me 6y agohttps://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-07-09-mn-22423-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-07-09-mn-22423-... He later publicly thanked US for helping him win.
- sudosysgen 6y agoYes, the US has heavily meddle in the 1996 Russian elections to prevent the much more popular Communist Party from winning the elections, and by doing so elected Yeltsin, whose disastrous actions led to the much weaker Russia we see today. Complete with advising him as he seized control of the media and used it to spread disinformation, forcing an IMF loan that was then used to buy votes, sending US intelligence agents to Russia, the whole deal. As for direct electoral fraud, the numbers in the election are incredibly fishy even from our historical viewpoint, was fraught with irregularities, much, much less than in the Bolivian elections that the US called illegitimate. This hypocrisy is yet more meddling.
- aaron695 6y agoIf you set up a popular Qanon or BLM or MAGA site you will make ok money from advertising. Popular <==> controversy. Meddling in elections is profitable for lots of people, not just the Russians. I'd stop fixating on them. Maybe as a state actor they can do more than commerce, but that's quite a socialist point of view. We seem to have forgotten the Macedonians - https://www.wired.com/2017/02/veles-macedonia-fake-news/ https://www.wired.com/2017/02/veles-macedonia-fake-news/
- Cantbekhan 6y agoWhy would this be flagged? It's a Reuters UK news about what is clearly an extremely important topic. It's clearly about hacking which is mentioned multiple times in the article. This is not a Russia Today article or something from the Onion...
- TheAdamAndChe 6y agoPosts can be important but not belong on this site. This is an extremely political topic, which is prone to causing comment section flamewars.