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I think perhaps I'm missing something in this whole fiasco. Many of the comments here read as if he's only charged with exercising free speech. Has someone act

I think perhaps I'm missing something in this whole fiasco. Many of the comments here read as if he's only charged with exercising free speech. Has someone actually read the charges to see what Assange is accused of? Surely it's something more than "publishing secret documents." Are they accusing him of exercising free speech, or accusing him of actual crimes?

luckylion 6y ago
> Are they accusing him of exercising free speech, or accusing him of actual crimes? They're accusing him of helping and encouraging the "stealing" of state secrets, which he then exposed.
alexisread 6y ago
See other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24577565 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24577565 And follow the trial updates to see the issues. Day 17 is particularly risible.
lxn 6y ago
I haven't read the charges. I'm not even sure if they are public. They were also changed a few times. Based on what I read (might be biased) he's charged for helping Chelsea Manning getting the documents (hacking) and publishing the documents before they were fully redacted to remove names and things that could help identify people - to protect the safety of people involved (common practice). This is debatable because he worked hard to redact name (together with the big newspapers), but other people published the raw documents before him and in the end Wiki Leaks release raw documents as well. All this is pieced together based on Craig Murray's blog [1], which is often flagged here on HN. [1] https://www.craigmurray.org.uk https://www.craigmurray.org.uk
- dhimes 6y ago
  And Dick Cheney was never even charged with outing Valerie Plame.
me_me_me 6y ago
Imagine China tried to extradite some journalist of Guardian for exposing 're-educational' camps in Xinjiang. We would be loosing our minds of how China has audacity to even try shit like that.
- dontcarethrow2 6y ago
  Didn't we sorta lose our minds when they were trying to extradite a killer that ran to Hong Kong to avoid extradition?
  - me_me_me 6y ago
    Well its not really a fair comparison. Assange is a journalist that worked together with leading newspaper to publish warcrimes. The one hacking charge is 5years total sentence of 125yrs that us is seeking. HK case is completely different where China tried to pass far reaching law based on a murder case, that was the reason people did protested (on top of other power grab by CHinese government).
- wavefunction 6y ago
  That would depend on the nature of the extradition agreements between the two countries. It seems ill-advised for Mr. Assange to head to the UK which has a famously "special relationship" with the US.
- kube-system 6y ago
  https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/01/china/hong-kong-activists-arrest-warrant-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/01/china/hong-kong-activists-arr... > Hong Kong police have issued arrest warrants for six overseas-based democracy activists > US national Chu, who is the managing director of the Hong Kong Democracy Council, a Washington DC-based advocacy group promoting freedom and autonomy for Hong Kong, appears to be the first known non-Hong Kong citizen to be targeted under the new security law. > In recent weeks, several countries have suspended their extradition treaties with Hong Kong, including the United Kingdom and Australia. On Friday, Germany joined that list
ChrisSD 6y ago
You can see the 18-count indictment here: https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1289641/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1289641/downl... The short version is they're accusing him of encouraging and engaging in illegal acts to obtain documents, not just publishing the documents. EDIT: Updated link as per acqq's comment. Old link: https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1165556/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1165556/downl...
- alex_young 6y ago
  What illegal acts are you referring to? There are a lot of allegations of things like implying he couldn’t decrypt something and encouraging a source to whistleblow about war crimes. It doesn’t seem obvious that these are illegal activities for a foreign journalist to engage in to me, but maybe I’m missing something?
  - smeeth 6y ago
    There is a legalistic difference between asking someone to give you information if they already have the information (legal? I think?) and before they have the information (definitely illegal). If the source doesn't have the information yet then you are asking them to steal government secrets, the crime for which is conspiracy to steal government secrets. That's traditionally what spies do, not journalists, which is why the crime exists.
    - dx87 6y ago
      I read before that another thing he did was tell Manning what software to use to crack passwords to gain access to more info. That definitely seems like crossing the line from just receiving information, to actively helping someone commit a crime.
      - mindslight 6y ago
        Pointing someone to a specific program is a crime in the same way as a doctor helping a career criminal regain their strength while they boast about committing new crimes. That is to say, not at all. Our field has a duty of care to help people actualize themselves in the digital realm.
mindslight 6y ago
> Are they accusing him of exercising free speech, or accusing him of actual crimes? This is how it works everywhere that has theoretically free speech, but not practical free speech. The principle itself is rarely attacked, rather the surrounding activities are criminalized. For example, these are actual excerpts from The PRC's Constitution (http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Constitution/2007-11/15/content_1372964.htm http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Constitution/2007-11/...): > Article 35 Citizens of the People’s Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration. > Article 36 Citizens of the People’s Republic of China enjoy freedom of religious belief. Does that sound like the practical situation in mainland China? How do you imagine a PRC court verdict about protesting reads?

luckylion 6y ago

> Are they accusing him of exercising free speech, or accusing him of actual crimes? They're accusing him of helping and encouraging the "stealing" of state secrets, which he then exposed.

alexisread 6y ago

See other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24577565 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24577565 And follow the trial updates to see the issues. Day 17 is particularly risible.

lxn 6y ago

I haven't read the charges. I'm not even sure if they are public. They were also changed a few times. Based on what I read (might be biased) he's charged for helping Chelsea Manning getting the documents (hacking) and publishing the documents before they were fully redacted to remove names and things that could help identify people - to protect the safety of people involved (common practice). This is debatable because he worked hard to redact name (together with the big newspapers), but other people published the raw documents before him and in the end Wiki Leaks release raw documents as well. All this is pieced together based on Craig Murray's blog [1], which is often flagged here on HN. [1] https://www.craigmurray.org.uk https://www.craigmurray.org.uk

dhimes 6y ago
And Dick Cheney was never even charged with outing Valerie Plame.

me_me_me 6y ago

Imagine China tried to extradite some journalist of Guardian for exposing 're-educational' camps in Xinjiang. We would be loosing our minds of how China has audacity to even try shit like that.

dontcarethrow2 6y ago
Didn't we sorta lose our minds when they were trying to extradite a killer that ran to Hong Kong to avoid extradition?
- me_me_me 6y ago
  Well its not really a fair comparison. Assange is a journalist that worked together with leading newspaper to publish warcrimes. The one hacking charge is 5years total sentence of 125yrs that us is seeking. HK case is completely different where China tried to pass far reaching law based on a murder case, that was the reason people did protested (on top of other power grab by CHinese government).
wavefunction 6y ago
That would depend on the nature of the extradition agreements between the two countries. It seems ill-advised for Mr. Assange to head to the UK which has a famously "special relationship" with the US.
kube-system 6y ago
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/01/china/hong-kong-activists-arrest-warrant-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/01/china/hong-kong-activists-arr... > Hong Kong police have issued arrest warrants for six overseas-based democracy activists > US national Chu, who is the managing director of the Hong Kong Democracy Council, a Washington DC-based advocacy group promoting freedom and autonomy for Hong Kong, appears to be the first known non-Hong Kong citizen to be targeted under the new security law. > In recent weeks, several countries have suspended their extradition treaties with Hong Kong, including the United Kingdom and Australia. On Friday, Germany joined that list

ChrisSD 6y ago

You can see the 18-count indictment here: https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1289641/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1289641/downl... The short version is they're accusing him of encouraging and engaging in illegal acts to obtain documents, not just publishing the documents. EDIT: Updated link as per acqq's comment. Old link: https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1165556/download https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1165556/downl...

alex_young 6y ago
What illegal acts are you referring to? There are a lot of allegations of things like implying he couldn’t decrypt something and encouraging a source to whistleblow about war crimes. It doesn’t seem obvious that these are illegal activities for a foreign journalist to engage in to me, but maybe I’m missing something?
- smeeth 6y ago
  There is a legalistic difference between asking someone to give you information if they already have the information (legal? I think?) and before they have the information (definitely illegal). If the source doesn't have the information yet then you are asking them to steal government secrets, the crime for which is conspiracy to steal government secrets. That's traditionally what spies do, not journalists, which is why the crime exists.
  - dx87 6y ago
    I read before that another thing he did was tell Manning what software to use to crack passwords to gain access to more info. That definitely seems like crossing the line from just receiving information, to actively helping someone commit a crime.
    - mindslight 6y ago
      Pointing someone to a specific program is a crime in the same way as a doctor helping a career criminal regain their strength while they boast about committing new crimes. That is to say, not at all. Our field has a duty of care to help people actualize themselves in the digital realm.

mindslight 6y ago

> Are they accusing him of exercising free speech, or accusing him of actual crimes? This is how it works everywhere that has theoretically free speech, but not practical free speech. The principle itself is rarely attacked, rather the surrounding activities are criminalized. For example, these are actual excerpts from The PRC's Constitution (http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Constitution/2007-11/15/content_1372964.htm http://www.npc.gov.cn/zgrdw/englishnpc/Constitution/2007-11/...): > Article 35 Citizens of the People’s Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration. > Article 36 Citizens of the People’s Republic of China enjoy freedom of religious belief. Does that sound like the practical situation in mainland China? How do you imagine a PRC court verdict about protesting reads?