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Most enlightened people don't even know they're enlightened. The ones who arrived there without conscious effort, through some intense concentration on some ot
by leashless 6y ago
Most enlightened people don't even know they're enlightened.
The ones who arrived there without conscious effort, through some intense concentration on some other aspect of life, simply lose their angst. Asked to explain, they usually have some kind of muddled folk mysticism about how it happened. Very few of them teach.
I know of well attested enlightenment from an olympic-grade swimmer, and a guy who really liked fly fishing, for example. The swimmer counted breaths while swimming, very much like one particular zen practice.
The desire to go out and teach is much more a side-effect of the people that were trained in schools founded by people who decided to go out and teach: the desire to teach is not embedded in the enlightenment experience for most people.
- tgb 6y agoThat doesn't really jive with what I've read about "enlightenment", particularly from the study summarized here: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/10/21/the-pnse-paper/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/10/21/the-pnse-paper/ In that, it describes people as outwardly exactly the same as before, but their internal experience changed dramatically. This sounds to be the opposite of what you're describing.
- leashless 6y agoWestern studies of these phenomena are in their infancy.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- silveroriole 6y agoThanks for posting this. It’s interesting and goes some way towards explaining why everyone I’ve met who extols the benefits of meditation is just as prone to mistakes, ineptitude, emotional reactions, pissing people off, etc as everyone else but (unlike those who don’t meditate) seem to have no awareness of it and never apologise!
- nafey 6y agoHold on. Is enlightenment a widely accepted phenomenon with an agreed definition?
- leashless 6y agoSure. It's an ancient study of academic interest in Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism etc. They all have sophisticated methodologies for evaluating enlightenment in individuals or even texts.
- mping 6y agoIt's not, by a mile. Feel free to correct me and kindly point out the agreed definition between the practices you mention.
- WiseWeasel 6y agoI think it's something like a realization allowing you to live in greater harmony with your circumstances and community.
- volume 6y agoIt's all the definitions in this discussion, but also including "the description is not the described".