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Consider, for example, an app that might initially request access to your contacts for a legitimate purpose (like messaging your friends), but secretly scrapes

Consider, for example, an app that might initially request access to your contacts for a legitimate purpose (like messaging your friends), but secretly scrapes your contacts and sells it to third parties. This is a privacy abuse that is not prevented by sandboxing since the user explicitly granted those permissions. The problem is the user has no control what the developer actually does with the data after the permission is granted. At least with an app review policy you can say this type of behavior is not acceptable and you will be banned if you abuse it. I'm not saying that will perfectly catch all abuses but at least it serves as a powerful deterrent that otherwise would not exist if all apps were directly distributed with no oversight. > Side loading would be used by power users most of the time or people in countries with censorship. Not sure why you think this but it simply doesn't match existing statistics. Side-loading and third-party stores are quite common in certain countries and it leads to large numbers of regular people getting infected by malware. For example, Kaspersky reports that 60% of mobile users in Iran and 38% of mobile users in India have been attacked by mobile malware. (https://securelist.com/mobile-malware-evolution-2019/96280/ https://securelist.com/mobile-malware-evolution-2019/96280/)

simion314 6y ago
Those poor people will never buy an iPhone or expensive phone, you should compare how many Samsung Galaxy or Pixel users in US vs iPhone users in US that have same financial situation get infected, otherwise you could compare iOS users in US with XP users in China it is "lying with statistics". The guy that reviews the Apple Store has no idea if the developer sells the data to a third party, the chances that somehow Apple finds this out in time to help you is minimal, it would help if Apple would let you give this people fake data or more granular data (like I want to give them a first name, 1 picture, and a city location but not much more details). Many existing apps are using FB SDKs, other advertising related library in the apps, loot boxes and other dark patterns and Apple is not blocking this because they have a financial interest.
- yazaddaruvala 6y ago
  It is my expectation that Apple verifies the identity of developers submitting to the AppStore. It is my expectation that if the initial review doesn't catch the abuse, and my contacts list is scraped and sold that Apple will eventually find out and ban the app from the store. It is also my expectation that Apple will file a suit for damages, and help a legal firm file a class action suit against the developer on behalf of the victims. If you are right and this isn't happening yet, I hope Apple starts doing it.
  - simion314 6y ago
    Yes Apple will terminate a dev account for not respecting the terms but I am not aware of Apple or Google trying to bring to justice developers that sold private data, at least in US there is a big resistance against having a GDPR like law so you could use the courts to punish some developers. Also we know that Apple (like Amazon and others) used contractors to have them listen to private recordings of users without asking consent (like hey user , I do not understand this can I send it to the cloud so strangers can listen and do stuff with it ?) , so for Apple privacy is a tool for making money, it aligns with your interest until a point (but as with Siri example you can see it is not 100% aligned with your interests)
- nodamage 6y ago
  I don't understand your point. Are you actually suggesting that poor people don't count? If you consider the US alone you're still looking at ~17 million malware infections last year on Android devices. > The guy that reviews the Apple Store has no idea if the developer sells the data to a third party, the chances that somehow Apple finds this out in time to help you is minimal The fact that they can ban these developers serves as a deterrent. What you're suggesting is the equivalent of saying there's no point in having laws against stealing because some people will steal anyway. What you should be considering is the net effect of the rules against the overall frequency of the problem, not whether it prevents them 100% of the time (which is impossible anyway). > Many existing apps are using FB SDKs, other advertising related library in the apps, loot boxes and other dark patterns and Apple is not blocking this because they have a financial interest. Now imagine how much worse it would be if Facebook (and every other app) was directly distributed and had zero oversight whatsoever.
  - simion314 6y ago
    My stats point is this, let me show a simple example. Say in my small poor country nobody has the latest BMW and most people use some 20 years Renaults. Then you can create some stats to show BMW is perfect and Renault is crap. Where would be fair to compare cars that are in the same price category, same age, same driver category etc. Is the same statistics shit Apple fanboys use when they want to show that Apple can't be a monopoly/duopoly the use a world wide stat(where in fact in US Apple and Google are around equal (iOS appears on top on this source but who knows how credible it is https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-sta...) About laws, it is more like because someone is getting hurt with his power tools then we ban power tools and we allow only children friendly tools. This is not how it is sone, we can ask for safer tools but if someone injures himself with his power tools it is his fault. (and now I expect the argument about "Apple branding needs to be protected" dude Apple shipped bad keyboards and refuse to aknowledge the issue until a a lawsuit, Apple fucked witht eh battery behind the users back and a lawsuit had to happen for this to be shown, Apple branding is not something as a user you need to care about because it promotes antiuser behavious.

simion314 6y ago

Those poor people will never buy an iPhone or expensive phone, you should compare how many Samsung Galaxy or Pixel users in US vs iPhone users in US that have same financial situation get infected, otherwise you could compare iOS users in US with XP users in China it is "lying with statistics". The guy that reviews the Apple Store has no idea if the developer sells the data to a third party, the chances that somehow Apple finds this out in time to help you is minimal, it would help if Apple would let you give this people fake data or more granular data (like I want to give them a first name, 1 picture, and a city location but not much more details). Many existing apps are using FB SDKs, other advertising related library in the apps, loot boxes and other dark patterns and Apple is not blocking this because they have a financial interest.

yazaddaruvala 6y ago
It is my expectation that Apple verifies the identity of developers submitting to the AppStore. It is my expectation that if the initial review doesn't catch the abuse, and my contacts list is scraped and sold that Apple will eventually find out and ban the app from the store. It is also my expectation that Apple will file a suit for damages, and help a legal firm file a class action suit against the developer on behalf of the victims. If you are right and this isn't happening yet, I hope Apple starts doing it.
- simion314 6y ago
  Yes Apple will terminate a dev account for not respecting the terms but I am not aware of Apple or Google trying to bring to justice developers that sold private data, at least in US there is a big resistance against having a GDPR like law so you could use the courts to punish some developers. Also we know that Apple (like Amazon and others) used contractors to have them listen to private recordings of users without asking consent (like hey user , I do not understand this can I send it to the cloud so strangers can listen and do stuff with it ?) , so for Apple privacy is a tool for making money, it aligns with your interest until a point (but as with Siri example you can see it is not 100% aligned with your interests)
nodamage 6y ago
I don't understand your point. Are you actually suggesting that poor people don't count? If you consider the US alone you're still looking at ~17 million malware infections last year on Android devices. > The guy that reviews the Apple Store has no idea if the developer sells the data to a third party, the chances that somehow Apple finds this out in time to help you is minimal The fact that they can ban these developers serves as a deterrent. What you're suggesting is the equivalent of saying there's no point in having laws against stealing because some people will steal anyway. What you should be considering is the net effect of the rules against the overall frequency of the problem, not whether it prevents them 100% of the time (which is impossible anyway). > Many existing apps are using FB SDKs, other advertising related library in the apps, loot boxes and other dark patterns and Apple is not blocking this because they have a financial interest. Now imagine how much worse it would be if Facebook (and every other app) was directly distributed and had zero oversight whatsoever.
- simion314 6y ago
  My stats point is this, let me show a simple example. Say in my small poor country nobody has the latest BMW and most people use some 20 years Renaults. Then you can create some stats to show BMW is perfect and Renault is crap. Where would be fair to compare cars that are in the same price category, same age, same driver category etc. Is the same statistics shit Apple fanboys use when they want to show that Apple can't be a monopoly/duopoly the use a world wide stat(where in fact in US Apple and Google are around equal (iOS appears on top on this source but who knows how credible it is https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-states-of-america https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/united-sta...) About laws, it is more like because someone is getting hurt with his power tools then we ban power tools and we allow only children friendly tools. This is not how it is sone, we can ask for safer tools but if someone injures himself with his power tools it is his fault. (and now I expect the argument about "Apple branding needs to be protected" dude Apple shipped bad keyboards and refuse to aknowledge the issue until a a lawsuit, Apple fucked witht eh battery behind the users back and a lawsuit had to happen for this to be shown, Apple branding is not something as a user you need to care about because it promotes antiuser behavious.