5 ms·

I admire what the community has achieve with Linux. I think is really great and I have used Linux in the past (Redhat, Fedora, Suse, Ubuntu, Mint). However, I

I admire what the community has achieve with Linux. I think is really great and I have used Linux in the past (Redhat, Fedora, Suse, Ubuntu, Mint). However, I always wonder what makes your experience so different than mine. For me I can simple replace what you said and it will still be valid: To me Linux were really frustrating to use since random parts of the system (CD-ROM, Word, Games...) would stop working at random times. (well the part about the CD tray never happened to me with any OS). I really like the customizability of Linux and such, but in the end, Windows 2000, XP, and 10 just works 99% of the time. At least for me who I consider an advanced user. Of course there are things I don't like, like telemetry, but the pros vs the cons, at least for me, make me always return to Windows. I have also worked with macs and for 4 years my wife had a MacBook. Not only do I find the prices crazy expensive, compared with ThinkPads, but I never found anything that was better in OSX than in Windows. Again, I can use macOS if needed be, and I find it just fine. But I prefer Win/ThinkPad. Of course this is my own opinion.

blablabla123 6y ago
For me the main difference between (early) Windows and Linux is, Windows is quick to setup and quick to break. Linux is hard to setup and hard to break - I cannot tell how much time I spent tweaking my Linux desktop. Also I could for instance use an old SCSI scanner on Linux much longer unlike Windows where they eventually stopped developing drivers for new Windows releases. But now things are of course a bit different, especially when choosing well supported hardware. On the other hand driver support tends to be more stable and long-term oriented on Linux since they tend to be maintained centrally in the Linux kernel. I agree that macOS is a bit mediocre in some sense, but somehow it unites the worlds of Linux and Windows.
- kwanbix 6y ago
  It could be a matter of experience. If you are more experienced with Linux, it could be easier than if you are more experienced with Windows. For me, Linux is easy to install, and it has been for a while, but then trying to customize it to do what I want, is much more complicated than Windows. For example, I want RAR support. There is no LinRAR, so I had to download a library and install it. It wasnt that bad, but in the end I ended up with a tool that was not as simple to use as Winrar. Want to use Total Commander? Either install Wine or run Midnight Commander or some other similar program that are not up to par with TC. Want to use Office? Wine or Crossover. Want to use Illustrator? Same. Need to install VMware? In Linux you have to import some signing key first and do some additional steps (don't completely remember). Nothing major, but you need to find out first how to do it. In Windows, just download the installer, double click and follow the wizard. For me it seems like it is always more complicated to do simple things in Linux, and you end up with some not as good solution. Also, I don't understand how can I download an installer from Windows XP and will 99% of the time install in Windows 10. However, if I want to install something old in the latest version of Linux, it won't install, will have to fix dependencies or similar. And for me the worst thing is that energy management for notebooks is not exactly the same. If my battery lasts 4 hours in Windows, it lasts 3 or 2 in Linux. Drivers it could be what you say for old ones where the manufacturer did not update to Windows 10, but if you have a supported device, usually the support is better on Windows. Of course there are advantages, like no telemetry, no antivirus, but for my use case, I found the experience worst. I am not saying totally worst. Maybe it is a 10 to 20% worst. Of course, I have used maybe 90% of my time Windows and 9% Linux and 1% MAC, so maybe I am just more experienced.
  - stjohnswarts 6y ago
    A lot of it has to do with experience. Linux is definitely rougher around the edges than Windows and OSX, but it also allows you to be free to do what you want with the OS as a hacker or programmer. Also I don't like being tracked while I'm on my computer. OSX is much better than windows in that respect so I'll throw that out there for the record. Windows tends to be more opinionated and tries to bind you to it's work flow and update schedule. On linux you can have your system update everyday or once a year; not recommended but if you're airgapped it doesn't really matter. I choose freedom over walled gardens. I still play games on windows though, but that's the only reason :)
  - hnlmorg 6y ago
    The issue there is you're trying to run Linux like it is Windows. If you do that then you're never going to have a good experience. For example if you're after Windows software on Linux or insist on downloading software rather than using the package manager then you clearly prefer the Windows-style workflow. Which is fine -- everyone has their own preferences. But if that is your preference then the issue isn't Linux doing things wrong, the issue is you just prefer Windows. For what it's worth, I equivalent teething pains when using OS X for a while. It took me a few months before I finally learned to adopt Mac-isms and I still don't feel at home on it like I do on Linux and BSD (my preferred platforms). Windows, however, always felt somewhat alien to me (and not through a lack of experience, I used to be a Windows developer and have written some pretty low level software for the platform. But even with all of that experience I still couldn't see eye to eye with the OS). By the way, there are Linux-native builds of WinRAR.
    - kwanbix 6y ago
      Thanks. I know what you mean. In the case of downloading vs package manager, the problem is that there is lot of software that I use that is not on the repositories. If everything was there, I have no problem on using 100% package manager. Regarding the apps, there off course the issue is that some apps have no equivalent in the Linux world. There is no MS Office, LibreoOffice is good but not so good, and same for Adobe Suite. Total Commander I can more or less replace with Double Commander, or TC under Wine. Afaik, there is a unrar.dll equivalent in Linux, but not a proper WinRAR. Thanks for your opinion!
stjohnswarts 6y ago
If you buy a system made with known linux compatible hardware you'll have zero problems. Just like a mac. Windows has the advantage that it gets first tier service and thus a greater chance with being stable with a broader swathe of hardware. OSX to me is much better than Windows because it doesn't get in your way. You want a new app download it and drop it in Applications. I don't know WTF windows does but some installs take forever; on Mac OSX and Linux install times are so much more reasonable and transparent. Obviously it matters WHAT you do with the OS, for some situations only Windows will have the software you need, and on those occasions I reluctantly use it. As far as stability on good hardware, for the average user, there's very little difference in the 3.
- kwanbix 6y ago
  I have always used ThinkPads, which are among the best supported notebooks for Linux afaik. I totally agree that Windows has an "unfair" advantage here as manufacturers make sure that their hardware works in Windows while for Linux most of the time they don't even provide drivers. I have helped friends and family configure their MACs and honestly I never felt wow this does not gets in the way. Not all apps in MAC are installed the same way IIRC. For example Adobe apps. Never had issues with installers that take forever in Windows. Same with Transparency. About the availability of the software, 99% of it is on Windows, so that is a big plus. But I am not talking so much about that, I am talking about the complexity to do things in Linux. Most of the time, at least for a user like me that tries it/uses it sporadically, I need to search for a way to install or do something. It is good that most of the time there is a response, but I find it weird that all is so complicated. For example, this is how I installed virtualbox some years ago (it might be better now) wget -q https://www.virtualbox.org/download/..._vbox_2016.asc https://www.virtualbox.org/download/..._vbox_2016.asc -O- | sudo apt-key add - wget -q https://www.virtualbox.org/download/oracle_vbox.asc https://www.virtualbox.org/download/oracle_vbox.asc -O- | sudo apt-key add - echo "deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian xenial contrib" | sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/virtualbox.list sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install virtualbox-5.0 In windows it was download, double click, next, next, next. Done. Here is how to install MKTOOLNIX (again, a couple of years ago) wget -q -O - https://www.bunkus.org/gpg-pub-moritzbunkus.txt https://www.bunkus.org/gpg-pub-moritzbunkus.txt | sudo apt-key add - sudo sh -c 'echo "deb http://www.bunkus.org/ubuntu/xenial/ http://www.bunkus.org/ubuntu/xenial/ ./" >> /etc/apt/sources.list' sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install mkvtoolnix mkvtoolnix-gui In windows, download, double click, next, next, next. Again, if you use it all the time, maybe it becomes natural to you.

blablabla123 6y ago

For me the main difference between (early) Windows and Linux is, Windows is quick to setup and quick to break. Linux is hard to setup and hard to break - I cannot tell how much time I spent tweaking my Linux desktop. Also I could for instance use an old SCSI scanner on Linux much longer unlike Windows where they eventually stopped developing drivers for new Windows releases. But now things are of course a bit different, especially when choosing well supported hardware. On the other hand driver support tends to be more stable and long-term oriented on Linux since they tend to be maintained centrally in the Linux kernel. I agree that macOS is a bit mediocre in some sense, but somehow it unites the worlds of Linux and Windows.

kwanbix 6y ago
It could be a matter of experience. If you are more experienced with Linux, it could be easier than if you are more experienced with Windows. For me, Linux is easy to install, and it has been for a while, but then trying to customize it to do what I want, is much more complicated than Windows. For example, I want RAR support. There is no LinRAR, so I had to download a library and install it. It wasnt that bad, but in the end I ended up with a tool that was not as simple to use as Winrar. Want to use Total Commander? Either install Wine or run Midnight Commander or some other similar program that are not up to par with TC. Want to use Office? Wine or Crossover. Want to use Illustrator? Same. Need to install VMware? In Linux you have to import some signing key first and do some additional steps (don't completely remember). Nothing major, but you need to find out first how to do it. In Windows, just download the installer, double click and follow the wizard. For me it seems like it is always more complicated to do simple things in Linux, and you end up with some not as good solution. Also, I don't understand how can I download an installer from Windows XP and will 99% of the time install in Windows 10. However, if I want to install something old in the latest version of Linux, it won't install, will have to fix dependencies or similar. And for me the worst thing is that energy management for notebooks is not exactly the same. If my battery lasts 4 hours in Windows, it lasts 3 or 2 in Linux. Drivers it could be what you say for old ones where the manufacturer did not update to Windows 10, but if you have a supported device, usually the support is better on Windows. Of course there are advantages, like no telemetry, no antivirus, but for my use case, I found the experience worst. I am not saying totally worst. Maybe it is a 10 to 20% worst. Of course, I have used maybe 90% of my time Windows and 9% Linux and 1% MAC, so maybe I am just more experienced.
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  A lot of it has to do with experience. Linux is definitely rougher around the edges than Windows and OSX, but it also allows you to be free to do what you want with the OS as a hacker or programmer. Also I don't like being tracked while I'm on my computer. OSX is much better than windows in that respect so I'll throw that out there for the record. Windows tends to be more opinionated and tries to bind you to it's work flow and update schedule. On linux you can have your system update everyday or once a year; not recommended but if you're airgapped it doesn't really matter. I choose freedom over walled gardens. I still play games on windows though, but that's the only reason :)
- hnlmorg 6y ago
  The issue there is you're trying to run Linux like it is Windows. If you do that then you're never going to have a good experience. For example if you're after Windows software on Linux or insist on downloading software rather than using the package manager then you clearly prefer the Windows-style workflow. Which is fine -- everyone has their own preferences. But if that is your preference then the issue isn't Linux doing things wrong, the issue is you just prefer Windows. For what it's worth, I equivalent teething pains when using OS X for a while. It took me a few months before I finally learned to adopt Mac-isms and I still don't feel at home on it like I do on Linux and BSD (my preferred platforms). Windows, however, always felt somewhat alien to me (and not through a lack of experience, I used to be a Windows developer and have written some pretty low level software for the platform. But even with all of that experience I still couldn't see eye to eye with the OS). By the way, there are Linux-native builds of WinRAR.
  - kwanbix 6y ago
    Thanks. I know what you mean. In the case of downloading vs package manager, the problem is that there is lot of software that I use that is not on the repositories. If everything was there, I have no problem on using 100% package manager. Regarding the apps, there off course the issue is that some apps have no equivalent in the Linux world. There is no MS Office, LibreoOffice is good but not so good, and same for Adobe Suite. Total Commander I can more or less replace with Double Commander, or TC under Wine. Afaik, there is a unrar.dll equivalent in Linux, but not a proper WinRAR. Thanks for your opinion!

stjohnswarts 6y ago

If you buy a system made with known linux compatible hardware you'll have zero problems. Just like a mac. Windows has the advantage that it gets first tier service and thus a greater chance with being stable with a broader swathe of hardware. OSX to me is much better than Windows because it doesn't get in your way. You want a new app download it and drop it in Applications. I don't know WTF windows does but some installs take forever; on Mac OSX and Linux install times are so much more reasonable and transparent. Obviously it matters WHAT you do with the OS, for some situations only Windows will have the software you need, and on those occasions I reluctantly use it. As far as stability on good hardware, for the average user, there's very little difference in the 3.

kwanbix 6y ago
I have always used ThinkPads, which are among the best supported notebooks for Linux afaik. I totally agree that Windows has an "unfair" advantage here as manufacturers make sure that their hardware works in Windows while for Linux most of the time they don't even provide drivers. I have helped friends and family configure their MACs and honestly I never felt wow this does not gets in the way. Not all apps in MAC are installed the same way IIRC. For example Adobe apps. Never had issues with installers that take forever in Windows. Same with Transparency. About the availability of the software, 99% of it is on Windows, so that is a big plus. But I am not talking so much about that, I am talking about the complexity to do things in Linux. Most of the time, at least for a user like me that tries it/uses it sporadically, I need to search for a way to install or do something. It is good that most of the time there is a response, but I find it weird that all is so complicated. For example, this is how I installed virtualbox some years ago (it might be better now) wget -q https://www.virtualbox.org/download/..._vbox_2016.asc https://www.virtualbox.org/download/..._vbox_2016.asc -O- | sudo apt-key add - wget -q https://www.virtualbox.org/download/oracle_vbox.asc https://www.virtualbox.org/download/oracle_vbox.asc -O- | sudo apt-key add - echo "deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian xenial contrib" | sudo tee /etc/apt/sources.list.d/virtualbox.list sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install virtualbox-5.0 In windows it was download, double click, next, next, next. Done. Here is how to install MKTOOLNIX (again, a couple of years ago) wget -q -O - https://www.bunkus.org/gpg-pub-moritzbunkus.txt https://www.bunkus.org/gpg-pub-moritzbunkus.txt | sudo apt-key add - sudo sh -c 'echo "deb http://www.bunkus.org/ubuntu/xenial/ http://www.bunkus.org/ubuntu/xenial/ ./" >> /etc/apt/sources.list' sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get install mkvtoolnix mkvtoolnix-gui In windows, download, double click, next, next, next. Again, if you use it all the time, maybe it becomes natural to you.