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1. Standups are a place to make people aware of problems, not the only place. 2. You don’t discuss problems at a standup, you make your team aware (if you have

1. Standups are a place to make people aware of problems, not the only place. 2. You don’t discuss problems at a standup, you make your team aware (if you haven’t already) and organise a separate session with only the interested people.

sdevonoes 6y ago
> You don’t discuss problems at a standup, you make your team aware (if you haven’t already) Exactly my point. We make the team aware of problems of blockers via Slack (team channel), so there is no point in making the team aware again of such blockers in the standup.
- tupputuppu 6y ago
  Based on my experience sharing things in-person is much more productive. I think you're looking from a developer perspective and thinking "how can I produce as much functionality without being impeded", which is your point of view. The scrum master is likely thinking "how can we ensure the whole team has an optimal flow" and ensuring such blockers are dealt with as effectively as possible, which is more important. Granted, most scrum masters have no idea what they're doing which likely leads to individual team members not seeing fulle value in Agile rituals, but it is there.
  - hackerm0nkey 6y ago
    it absolutely makes no difference to me to have standups, yet still we participate in them... - To see who's working on what, I just look at the board. - To seek help when I get blocked, I send a message on Slack (or whatever) at the point that I need that help, not only at 9:30 AM - To know who's blocked on what, just tune to Slack Given the above and if you have the team discipline to make sure that tickets reflect the state of work. Why do we need standups then? That time can be more targeted towards a meaningful discussion, but the industry seem to be blindly just doing that without giving it much deeper thought. It baffles me.
    - iovrthoughtthis 6y ago
      You might not. “Individuals and interactions over processes and tools” Doing standups for the sake of it is adherence to a process over the needs of you’re people. Equally, a core principal of agile was always: “The most efficient and effective method of conveying information to and within a development team is face-to-face conversation.” And I think it’s always worth considering if your truth is the same for everyone on the team. This is actually something I’d bring up in a review (assuming you have those too right?). If you all agree that notifying and handling problems in Slack is enough, that checking the board is sufficient the just do that? What is stopping you? I would also look for actually data too back it up. How often are people blocked. How do they get unblocked. How long does that take. Etc. Gives you some insight into the reality of the situation and some ammunition to get things changed if you’re team isn’t really being agile and is just doing the corporate software eng dance.
- danaris 6y ago
  I also at least have the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that standup, and the Agile philosophy that describes them, arose before Slack and similar work-based IM systems were common.
  - iovrthoughtthis 6y ago
    Well, email and IRC existed at the time so I am not certain of that.
- iovrthoughtthis 6y ago
  Thats sounds really quite personal to the individual / team culture and you’re likely right given you’re a part of the team and so one of the best people to know. If standup’s aren’t solving a clear problem for you, stop doing them. Have you spoken to your lead / manager about why you do them? How do the rest of your team feel?

sdevonoes 6y ago

> You don’t discuss problems at a standup, you make your team aware (if you haven’t already) Exactly my point. We make the team aware of problems of blockers via Slack (team channel), so there is no point in making the team aware again of such blockers in the standup.

tupputuppu 6y ago
Based on my experience sharing things in-person is much more productive. I think you're looking from a developer perspective and thinking "how can I produce as much functionality without being impeded", which is your point of view. The scrum master is likely thinking "how can we ensure the whole team has an optimal flow" and ensuring such blockers are dealt with as effectively as possible, which is more important. Granted, most scrum masters have no idea what they're doing which likely leads to individual team members not seeing fulle value in Agile rituals, but it is there.
- hackerm0nkey 6y ago
  it absolutely makes no difference to me to have standups, yet still we participate in them... - To see who's working on what, I just look at the board. - To seek help when I get blocked, I send a message on Slack (or whatever) at the point that I need that help, not only at 9:30 AM - To know who's blocked on what, just tune to Slack Given the above and if you have the team discipline to make sure that tickets reflect the state of work. Why do we need standups then? That time can be more targeted towards a meaningful discussion, but the industry seem to be blindly just doing that without giving it much deeper thought. It baffles me.
  - iovrthoughtthis 6y ago
    You might not. “Individuals and interactions over processes and tools” Doing standups for the sake of it is adherence to a process over the needs of you’re people. Equally, a core principal of agile was always: “The most efficient and effective method of conveying information to and within a development team is face-to-face conversation.” And I think it’s always worth considering if your truth is the same for everyone on the team. This is actually something I’d bring up in a review (assuming you have those too right?). If you all agree that notifying and handling problems in Slack is enough, that checking the board is sufficient the just do that? What is stopping you? I would also look for actually data too back it up. How often are people blocked. How do they get unblocked. How long does that take. Etc. Gives you some insight into the reality of the situation and some ammunition to get things changed if you’re team isn’t really being agile and is just doing the corporate software eng dance.
danaris 6y ago
I also at least have the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that standup, and the Agile philosophy that describes them, arose before Slack and similar work-based IM systems were common.
- iovrthoughtthis 6y ago
  Well, email and IRC existed at the time so I am not certain of that.
iovrthoughtthis 6y ago
Thats sounds really quite personal to the individual / team culture and you’re likely right given you’re a part of the team and so one of the best people to know. If standup’s aren’t solving a clear problem for you, stop doing them. Have you spoken to your lead / manager about why you do them? How do the rest of your team feel?