> It's a group I've dabbled in being part of at some employers, and found quite unfulfilling and frustrating because management is way more meddlesome in that m

> It's a group I've dabbled in being part of at some employers, and found quite unfulfilling and frustrating because management is way more meddlesome in that mode and individual leverage is practically nonexistent without playing the politics game well. YMMV No kidding. Seeing this failure mode is unfortunate because it's not an immediate killer but it's a lethal one once it sinks its teeth in un-opposed.