3 ms·

There is yet no evidence that explicitly ties the use of a face mask to lower rates of SARS-CoV-2 transmission. A lot of the published evidence is either incons

There is yet no evidence that explicitly ties the use of a face mask to lower rates of SARS-CoV-2 transmission. A lot of the published evidence is either inconsistent, or indirect (measurement of droplets, but that doesn't take physical barriers like nose and mouth, or the viral load required to overcome the non adaptive immune system). In fact, it has been argued that non pharmacological interventions should be evaluated with better evidence [1]. A Danish clinical trial enrolling 3000 people will probably give some more concrete answers. OTOH, hand washing and distance are definitely useful to reduce spread. P.S. Feel free to state your disagreement explicitly instead of downvoting. [1] https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/08/28/margaret-mccartney-we-need-better-evidence-on-non-drug-interventions-for-covid-19/ https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/08/28/margaret-mccartney-we-n...

8note 6y ago
Is there clinical evidence for handwashing and distancing is effective? Study with a nice chart saying the benefit for each additional foot?
- sieabahlpark 6y ago
  Did handwashing stop being effective for washing anything off your hands? Sure you could be pedantic and mention some caustic material that reacts with water but that misses the point.
zorak 6y ago
Great explanation of the issues here: https://medium.com/incerto/the-masks-masquerade-7de897b517b7 https://medium.com/incerto/the-masks-masquerade-7de897b517b7
- lbeltrame 6y ago
  I'm not saying that masks don't work. But whether they are effective at reducing transmission and, if so, in what measure are open questions. The literature is at this point inconclusive[1]. Even the latest Lancet paper on masks and distancing attracted some criticism[2]. Of course,I agree that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. But, as the BMJ post I quoted earlier says, instead of just saying "wear a mask", the best idea would also promote trials to verify their effectiveness (like the Danish trial). It's done all the time for drugs, why not masks? [1] https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/ https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-... [2] https://pubpeer.com/publications/6AF113CE946CABB0FBB811697E5E54 https://pubpeer.com/publications/6AF113CE946CABB0FBB811697E5...
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  This article is flawed in numerous ways. "missing the compounding effect" - What about the compounding effect of numerous people putting a plague vector directly on their respiratory system? "Mistaking Absence of Evidence for Evidence of Absence" - The argument isn't that because there's no evidence it's guaranteed to not work. The argument is that without solid evidence constitutional rights should not be infringed. And on and on.
nickthemagicman 6y ago
You're going to get downvotes like crazy from the Corona Cult. Vote in November! Keep the fanatics from taking over.
- Simulacra 6y ago
  It's America's obsession with self righteous indignation. "How dare you not go along with the mob and put on your mask. What kind of horrible person are you?" Americans, of which I am one, have this mentality that if someone disagrees, they are a terrible, horrible person that must be crushed by your rightness.
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    Yep. Completely agree. There's very little middle ground anymore. It's just pure righteous indignation from all sides. Trump bad, guns good, abortion good, q anon good...and on and on. I personally blame the media, where most people get their information, for presenting things in an extremely one sided non-nuanced manner, no matter, what party or group you hail from. It makes it impossible to empathize with the other side or see other ideas if it's presented already by the media as unquestionable ideas. However, it's also on the population for being intellectually lazy and not validating or verifying what they see on the news media.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Posting like this is basically arson, or criminal negligence. I'm sure you don't mean to cause harm, but this has been a problem for a long time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23730601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23730601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23299305 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23299305 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20135818 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20135818 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18257769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18257769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16055379 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16055379 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15695133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15695133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14540750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14540750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13859103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13859103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12995487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12995487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12995486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12995486 If you can't or won't fix this, we're going to have to ban you. Most accounts would be banned by now after a lot less than that. Can you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on?
aaron695 6y ago
Hand washing won't help, we've always known this. It will do something, in a very complicated way, but compared to things that really matter that we haven't been able to push like mask wearing(you disagree) and social distancing and being outside, hand washing has been a huge distraction, which is the same as saying it's helped increase the spread.

8note 6y ago

Is there clinical evidence for handwashing and distancing is effective? Study with a nice chart saying the benefit for each additional foot?

sieabahlpark 6y ago
Did handwashing stop being effective for washing anything off your hands? Sure you could be pedantic and mention some caustic material that reacts with water but that misses the point.

zorak 6y ago

Great explanation of the issues here: https://medium.com/incerto/the-masks-masquerade-7de897b517b7 https://medium.com/incerto/the-masks-masquerade-7de897b517b7

lbeltrame 6y ago
I'm not saying that masks don't work. But whether they are effective at reducing transmission and, if so, in what measure are open questions. The literature is at this point inconclusive[1]. Even the latest Lancet paper on masks and distancing attracted some criticism[2]. Of course,I agree that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. But, as the BMJ post I quoted earlier says, instead of just saying "wear a mask", the best idea would also promote trials to verify their effectiveness (like the Danish trial). It's done all the time for drugs, why not masks? [1] https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/ https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-... [2] https://pubpeer.com/publications/6AF113CE946CABB0FBB811697E5E54 https://pubpeer.com/publications/6AF113CE946CABB0FBB811697E5...
nickthemagicman 6y ago
This article is flawed in numerous ways. "missing the compounding effect" - What about the compounding effect of numerous people putting a plague vector directly on their respiratory system? "Mistaking Absence of Evidence for Evidence of Absence" - The argument isn't that because there's no evidence it's guaranteed to not work. The argument is that without solid evidence constitutional rights should not be infringed. And on and on.

nickthemagicman 6y ago

You're going to get downvotes like crazy from the Corona Cult. Vote in November! Keep the fanatics from taking over.

Simulacra 6y ago
It's America's obsession with self righteous indignation. "How dare you not go along with the mob and put on your mask. What kind of horrible person are you?" Americans, of which I am one, have this mentality that if someone disagrees, they are a terrible, horrible person that must be crushed by your rightness.
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  Yep. Completely agree. There's very little middle ground anymore. It's just pure righteous indignation from all sides. Trump bad, guns good, abortion good, q anon good...and on and on. I personally blame the media, where most people get their information, for presenting things in an extremely one sided non-nuanced manner, no matter, what party or group you hail from. It makes it impossible to empathize with the other side or see other ideas if it's presented already by the media as unquestionable ideas. However, it's also on the population for being intellectually lazy and not validating or verifying what they see on the news media.
dang 6y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar. Posting like this is basically arson, or criminal negligence. I'm sure you don't mean to cause harm, but this has been a problem for a long time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23730601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23730601 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23299305 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23299305 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20135818 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20135818 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18257769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18257769 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16055379 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16055379 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15695133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15695133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14540750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14540750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13859103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13859103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12995487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12995487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12995486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12995486 If you can't or won't fix this, we're going to have to ban you. Most accounts would be banned by now after a lot less than that. Can you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules from now on?

aaron695 6y ago

Hand washing won't help, we've always known this. It will do something, in a very complicated way, but compared to things that really matter that we haven't been able to push like mask wearing(you disagree) and social distancing and being outside, hand washing has been a huge distraction, which is the same as saying it's helped increase the spread.