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> "Your claim that you can't have a monopoly on IPhone apps because IPhone is apple's product is fundamentally flawed". I never claimed that at all. It's a qu
by zaroth 6y ago
> "Your claim that you can't have a monopoly on IPhone apps because IPhone is apple's product is fundamentally flawed".
I never claimed that at all.
It's a question for the courts to decide if it wants to allow Apple's current App Store contract to stand, and if not, what remedy they propose. But it wouldn't be because Apple has a "monopoly" on the iPhone or iOS, it would ride partly on the question of, from your own source, "whether consumers entered into such "contracts" knowing that they were agreeing to such a commitment", and I suppose partly on whether the contract is illegally anti-competitive even if it was entered into knowingly.
Further quoting from your own source, Newcal v Icon;
"First and foremost, the relevant market must be a product market. The consumers do not define the boundaries of the market; the products or producers do. Second, the market must encompass the product at issue as well as all economic substitutes for the product. As the Supreme Court has instructed, "The outer boundaries of a product market are determined by the reasonable interchangeability of use or the cross-elasticity of demand between the product itself and substitutes for it." As such, the relevant market must include "the group or groups of sellers or producers who have actual or potential ability to deprive each other of significant levels of business."
Further reading of that case (a great example by the way) involves discussion of an interesting case against Domino's pizza. Franchisees attempted to sue because they were contractually required to purchase ingredients from Domino's, and Domino's therefore held a monopoly on their ingredients. It's not that substitute ingredients didn't exist, they just weren't allowed by Domino's to buy them.
Similarly with the App Store, it's not that other apps don't exist, it's just that contracturally, iOS doesn't allow you to download them. There is a competitive market for apps (very clearly!) but yet the market for apps on an iPhone is contractually limited in a way which you might be tempted to call a monopoly. The Third Circuit ruled otherwise. As long as customers knowingly entered into this contract, the existence of the contract provision does not create a illegal monopoly.
> "The Third Circuit held that the contractually created difference among otherwise-substitutable products was insufficient to create an economically distinct antitrust submarket."
The counter argument is given as Kodak v. Image Technical Services. In this case, Kodak is monopolizing the market for repair parts and services. The Supreme Court rules that buyers of Kodak machines could not reasonably predict that such a purchase would lock them into buying overpriced Kodak parts and services down the line.
> The Court rejected that analogy on the ground that the consumers could not, at the time of purchase, reasonably discover that Kodak monopolized the service market and charged supracompetitive prices for its service. Id. Kodak's market power in parts and services, therefore, did not arise from a knowing contractual (or quasi-contractual), arrangement.
By comparison, no one who is buying an iPhone could reasonably be unaware that the App Store is the only way to install apps on it.
More importantly, Apple isn't being sued by consumers. It's being sued by App Developers, who did certainly quite knowingly enter into a contract with Apple to write apps for their platform.
I don't know of any statue that requires Apple to provide access to their own device to third party software developers. Third parties can write an app for iOS or not, but when they do so, developers enter into a contract with Apple that decidedly comes with some conditions.
- gpm 6y agoIf that first sentence isn't what you meant then I'm afraid I've totally missed your point, and continue to miss it.
- zaroth 6y agoPerhaps I don't know what you mean "monopoly on iPhone Apps". I said they don't have a monopoly on iPhone or iOS, because such a statement is nonsensical. It seems to me that you moved the goalposts to talking about iPhone apps. I mean, they obviously don't have a monopoly on iPhone apps either (probably 99.99% of all apps are not written by Apple). What they have is significant and costly contractual terms which they require developers to agree to before they let you publish an app on their device. Some argue that those terms may be illegally anti-competitive, but it wouldn't be because of a "monopoly". The court case you referenced emphatically states that explicit contractual provisions cannot form the boundaries of an antitrust submarket. Fundamentally consumers have a choice when they buy a smartphone. They can choose from several different manufacturers, and the market is highly competitive. The whole beauty of a capitalist market is that companies get to choose the features and experience their product provides to differentiate themselves, and as long as consumers have a choice between products, those products should live or die based on those features and experience. Apple is clearly doing quite well in a highly competitive market making the product design choices they are making, because consumers are choosing that experience over the alternative. To bring it back to the Kodak case, if we were to consider whether Apple has a monopoly on iPhone repair & service, I would say, "Hey gpm, that's entirely possible. I don't know if they do or don't, but it's important that they aren't anti-competitively dominating that market!" Repair and service of a brand is logically quite different from the brand itself.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]