5 ms·

I think the answer is that the US population is much less "lefty" that people in that milieu would like to believe.

by retox 6y ago

sjg007 6y ago
I think you are wrong. Almost all Americans want police reform for example.
- crocodiletears 6y ago
  'Want police reform' and, 'want leftist-espoused police reform' are two very different things. Just because the majority of a population support a given policy abstract doesn't mean that the gamut of their potential demands doesn't span the entirety of the political spectrum.
  - sjg007 6y ago
    I don't really get your point. People need to vote and all of this pedantry will go away.
    - crocodiletears 6y ago
      My point is that police reform isn't exclusively a Lefty issue. It's the domain of every political interest group suspicious of the state's use of power.
  - krapp 6y ago
    > 'Want police reform' and, 'want leftist-espoused police reform' are two very different things. Not really. The reform that most Americans want is premised on the belief that racism and violence against African Americans are systemic issues in policing which need drastic measures to solve at best, or a complete dismantling of the system at worst. The right either refuses to accept that such problems exist, dismissing them as fabrications by the left, or justifies them on the basis that African Americans are endemically violent and lawless, and deserve the brutal treatment and suspicion they receive. The only 'reforms' the right wants are to give the police more guns and for them to not be held back against certain "problem" demographics by "political correctness," but the reform most Americans want is entirely leftist in its assumptions and goals.
    - crocodiletears 6y ago
      You've clearly not heard a conservative or a libertarian rail about no-knocks, mandatory minimum sentencing, drug laws, or civil asset forfeiture. Large elements of the right often refuse to accept systemic racism, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its own critiques against policing that make the abstract statement 'I support police reform' valid for them. Outside the left and the far right, although moderate liberals acknowledge the existence of systemic biases in policing, I've heard proposals ranging from 'remove qualified immunity', to 'more training', to 'expand social services', but typically with the caveat that 'my poufs Dept is fine', or 'I don't want social workers to replace any of the police, I just want them in addition to the police'. There's usually a big fat asterisk alongside the suggestion that requires a positive sum outcome where nothing really changes in their lives, but everything is abstractly better.
- smsm42 6y ago
  "Police reform" means very different things to different people. To some, it means replacing cops with social workers, to others, it means giving them enough manpower and training budgets to be more efficient. Both are reforms, but very different ones.

I think the answer is that the US population is much less "lefty" that people in that milieu would like to believe.

by retox 6y ago

I think the answer is that the US population is much less "lefty" that people in that milieu would like to believe.

sjg007 6y ago

I think you are wrong. Almost all Americans want police reform for example.

crocodiletears 6y ago
'Want police reform' and, 'want leftist-espoused police reform' are two very different things. Just because the majority of a population support a given policy abstract doesn't mean that the gamut of their potential demands doesn't span the entirety of the political spectrum.
- sjg007 6y ago
  I don't really get your point. People need to vote and all of this pedantry will go away.
  - crocodiletears 6y ago
    My point is that police reform isn't exclusively a Lefty issue. It's the domain of every political interest group suspicious of the state's use of power.
- krapp 6y ago
  > 'Want police reform' and, 'want leftist-espoused police reform' are two very different things. Not really. The reform that most Americans want is premised on the belief that racism and violence against African Americans are systemic issues in policing which need drastic measures to solve at best, or a complete dismantling of the system at worst. The right either refuses to accept that such problems exist, dismissing them as fabrications by the left, or justifies them on the basis that African Americans are endemically violent and lawless, and deserve the brutal treatment and suspicion they receive. The only 'reforms' the right wants are to give the police more guns and for them to not be held back against certain "problem" demographics by "political correctness," but the reform most Americans want is entirely leftist in its assumptions and goals.
  - crocodiletears 6y ago
    You've clearly not heard a conservative or a libertarian rail about no-knocks, mandatory minimum sentencing, drug laws, or civil asset forfeiture. Large elements of the right often refuse to accept systemic racism, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its own critiques against policing that make the abstract statement 'I support police reform' valid for them. Outside the left and the far right, although moderate liberals acknowledge the existence of systemic biases in policing, I've heard proposals ranging from 'remove qualified immunity', to 'more training', to 'expand social services', but typically with the caveat that 'my poufs Dept is fine', or 'I don't want social workers to replace any of the police, I just want them in addition to the police'. There's usually a big fat asterisk alongside the suggestion that requires a positive sum outcome where nothing really changes in their lives, but everything is abstractly better.
smsm42 6y ago
"Police reform" means very different things to different people. To some, it means replacing cops with social workers, to others, it means giving them enough manpower and training budgets to be more efficient. Both are reforms, but very different ones.