6 ms·

Pigs are as smart as dogs. Why do we eat one and love the other?

31 points by Xcelerate 6y ago

juniper_strong 6y ago
There are places where it is allowed to eat dogs and forbidden to eat pigs. And I'm pretty sure the arctic explorers both loved and ate their dogs.
- esperent 6y ago
  I live in a place where people eat dogs (Vietnam). Especially in the north of the country there are quite a few dog restaurants. But I think it's fair to say that a majority of Vietnamese people don't like this and there is a movement towards banning the dogmeat trade. I think there were new laws passed about it in the last year actually, although it remains to be seen if they will be enforced. As for a place where you can eat dogs but not pigs, where is that? Most muslims certainly don't eat dogs, since they are considered dirty under Islam.
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >But I think it's fair to say that a majority of Vietnamese people don't like this and there is a movement towards banning the dogmeat trade. Is it because most Vietnamese traditionally did not like the taste/concept, or because many today were affected by western culture (movies, series, etc.) focusing on dogs as pets? >As for a place where you can eat dogs but not pigs, where is that? Most muslims certainly don't eat dogs, since they are considered dirty under Islam. Well, Indonesia is mostly muslim, and they do eat dogs: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/9/a-taste-for-dog-indonesia-trade-persists-despite-crackdown https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/9/a-taste-for-dog-ind...
mr_toad 6y ago
Not much point raising a carnivore for meat, since you have to raise another animal to feed them. Dogs are technically omnivores, but good luck fattening a herd of dogs cheaply on vegetables.
anfilt 6y ago
First it is hard to eat something you raised as a pet. However, people have eaten coyote here in the states, and one thing is the glands can make the meat taste pretty horrid at times. If you’re choosing an animal as livestock you probably want the meat to be edible every time. Canines meat can vary too much because the various glands they have can effect the meat depending on how the animal was feeling. Let alone the cultural issues about eating a companion. Like horse meat can be taboo just because that in a lot of areas.
coldtea 6y ago
>Pigs are as smart as dogs. Why do we eat one and love the other? Well, we don't eat people with mental issues either, or think it's OK to eat them just because they aren't "smart". It was never about the smartness, it's about the utility (including being a guardian, keeping company, etc), breeding capabilities/size, and/or taste. Plus customs. Some cultures do eat dogs. Some don't eat pigs.
- arkanciscan 6y ago
  Pigs aren't cute either.
HashingtheCode 6y ago
I think it's good that people become aware of their dietary hypocrisy in their lives. Not many animals are treated more cruelly than pigs raised for food consumption with the exception of chickens perhaps. The problem is that culturally around the world, all kinds of animals end up on dinner plates that are unacceptable to other cultures. There is no right or wrong. The only solution is compassion for other animals suffering, and then making a conscious choice. If a person is really compassionate, they will not eat any animals. Until then, articles like this highlight the hypocrisy but that alone is not enough to enable change within human society on a whole. BTW, it is established that we do not need to eat meat to survive. People choose to eat meat because they like the taste, not for any other reason.
- bigwavedave 6y ago
  >If a person is really compassionate, they will not eat any animals. I had the opportunity to live in an impoverished area of the Phillipines for several years- I met many kinds of people, some of whom were the most compassionate and selfless individuals I've ever known. After seeing the meals of dogs and cats they need to eat to survive because they can't afford any other lifestyle, I can say with no reservations at all that it's absolutely ludicrous to assert that compassion and carnivorism are mutually exclusive. Your sweeping generalization is wrong, my friend; perhaps you should try to empathize with the people you deride.
  - nojvek 6y ago
    True. However if they had better means they’d chose to go vegetarian right?
    - HashingtheCode 6y ago
      No. You see the abundant food choices in developed countries and yet only a small percentage of the population is vegetarian or vegan. The reason why people choose a vegetarian/vegan diet is also varied and sometimes has nothing to do with wanting to stop the suffering of animals. Losing weight, a healthier body, peer group pressure are alternate motivations. The decisive factor is not poverty. I was also in the Philippines, and I was able to eat quite well for my 3 months there. I ate rice, beans, fruits and vegetables. My costs were the same as a local.
datajack 6y ago
Another cultural bias. As usual it is the perspective of a Euro-Caucasian centric view.Like the maximum number of characters permitted for your Last Name field when filling up electronic or even physical forms. You think other cultures do not eat dog meat?
austincheney 6y ago
Pigs are substantially more intelligent than dogs. Pigs are almost as intelligent as primates. This subject ultimately comes down to utility. Until recently horses were far more valuable than dogs and horses are incredibly stupid.
- johnkarahalis 6y ago
  Would you say intelligence is the most important factor when determining whether it is ethical to cause suffering? Is it more ethical to cause suffering to an unintelligent person, like a toddler, than an intelligent one?
  - austincheney 6y ago
    I don’t like to cause suffering to anything. I am that weak weirdo that will capture flies and spider with napkins and release them outside. Weak is not the best word. Soft is probably a better description.
- anon9001 6y ago
  > horses are incredibly stupid I thought horses were supposed to be smart, but TV may have influenced my thinking... > As actor Alan Young recounted: "It was initially done by putting a piece of nylon thread in his mouth. But Ed actually learned to move his lips on cue when the trainer touched his hoof. In fact, he soon learned to do it when I stopped talking during a scene! Ed was very smart."
JohnHaugeland 6y ago
Pigs will bite off your finger. Dogs will fight a burglar to the death. Also dog meat doesn't taste good. We eat both in many parts of the world. Also pigs are kept as pets.
- deckarep 6y ago
  Pretty sure my dog will stare at an intruder with a derp face and then run away. But, she’s still the sweetest little potato ever.
- johnkarahalis 6y ago
  Are friendliness and loyalty important ethical factors? Is it more ethical to cause suffering to an unfriendly and disloyal person than a friendly and loyal one?
  - voxl 6y ago
    Why is reducing suffering ethical? When you squash a bug does it suffer? Most lie and say it doesn't, because the exact chemical signals aren't there, but if you could ask the bug it would not want to be crushed. What about plants? Do they enjoy being uprooted and eaten? Well, there is no chemical process that we call "suffering" so it must be okay. But, these mammals you see, they're so close to us! And we don't like it when humans suffer. Even worse, most people hate when something cute suffers, even more so then a human. There is no real greater ethical meaning here, just arbitrary lines drawn in the sand by people with strong feelings one way or the other. And yes, the same goes for the suffering of us humans.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - johnkarahalis 6y ago
      Is there evidence that plants feel pain or that bugs do not? I don't know of any, but I would definitively be interested as that could change my view. I want to go wherever the evidence leads, even if it's uncomfortable. In either case, if plants did feel pain, would a person cause more suffering by eating plants or by eating animals that eat plants?
mdifrgechd 6y ago
Bacon tastes good, porkchops taste good...
- acheron 6y ago
  That pig would have to be ten times more charming than Arnold on Green Acres.
  - mdifrgechd 6y ago
    Thank you, I was hoping for an indication that at least somebody got it.
- abosley 6y ago
  +1...I was going to say that the author apparently has never tasted bacon....everything becomes much simpler after that :). If we judged our behavior based on how intelligent the species is that we are doing something to...I believe war would be a non-starter, no?
manfredo 6y ago
I'd put my money on less utility. Dogs can be used for hunting, managing herds of pasture animals, guarding things, tracking animals and people by scent, and more. Pigs can learn tricks and be trained to sniff for things (e.g. truffles). But I've never seen a pig herding sheep. Pigs are probably less useful to hunt with, since they're slower than dogs and aren't natural predators.
jmccaf 6y ago
Pigs are also a handy source of meat. They grow to a large mature size quickly, reproduce in large litters with an early sequel maturity, and (like dogs) can eat all type of food, like the las vegas pig farm on restaraunt leftovers https://www.agupdate.com/agriview/news/business/pigs-part-of-las-vegas-efforts/article_8eef3046-0bf7-5ec7-ac35-a78d0dcce34f.html https://www.agupdate.com/agriview/news/business/pigs-part-of... Anecdote: my inlaws in Colorado 50 years ago used to grow potatoes for market and raise pigs for themselves. They showed me an enormous cast iron pot dug into an earthen stove where they'd cook potato "slop" for the pigs. To this day the family cooks with lard instead of oil.
- sebastialonso 6y ago
  Uuuh...dogs can't eat any type of food. Everyday things like garlic, onions, avocado and chocolate, in no big a serving, can kill them in a relatively short time. Please be aware of our little friends can and should eat.
  - bananabiscuit 6y ago
    In Russia, nobody knows that dogs can’t eat any type of food. The dogs there don’t know this either.
    - shoulderfake 6y ago
      Same everywhere else where we treat dogs like animals not members of the family.
    - doteka 6y ago
      Such a weird comment. Are you proud of large-scale animal abuse or what exactly is the point you are trying to make here? As someone born in the former Soviet Union, “Russia does things this way” is not a good thing.
      - bananabiscuit 6y ago
        Nope, not proud. Russia is definitely fucked up. Just bringing up an interesting fact, I do seriously wonder though, why these dietary restriction aren’t generally known in Russia, and it is interesting that the dogs do handle it. I even know one family that specifically makes an very onion based dish for their dog as a treat because she likes it so much, with no ill effect. For the record, I avoid giving my dog anything that is considered in-appropriate by American standards.
aaron695 6y ago
Why do people let Vox lecture them in their arrogant way? I haven't listened to the additional lecture part, so not sure what they go into. Pigs are way smarter than dogs. Dogs are a very gamey meat and are expensive. In Asia they only eat it rarely for special occasions or health. It costs to much. I'm not a big fan, but maybe if I had it more it'd become an every day meat like pig. But I think not. They are not bred to be eaten. They are carnivores. And bred to look emotional to humans. What interesting with this restaurant dog thief article to me is they are poor, but they do it for beer. People need something in life to live for. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xymkgw/eating-with-the-dog-thieves-of-cambodia https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xymkgw/eating-with-the-do...
timonoko 6y ago
The thing is that dogs love to eat human shit. No other animal does that. That is how they started cohabitating with humans, cleaning the cave from dead people and shit. As a proctection they also evolved to be less tasty. "Tastes like piss" said older Noko, because in the Lappland War 1944, there was food shortage, and they ate everything. Except humans only occasionally. There are several reports of human fingernails in the spam-cans, that German distributed freely to their allies in Finland.

31 points by Xcelerate 6y ago

There are places where it is allowed to eat dogs and forbidden to eat pigs. And I'm pretty sure the arctic explorers both loved and ate their dogs.

esperent 6y ago
I live in a place where people eat dogs (Vietnam). Especially in the north of the country there are quite a few dog restaurants. But I think it's fair to say that a majority of Vietnamese people don't like this and there is a movement towards banning the dogmeat trade. I think there were new laws passed about it in the last year actually, although it remains to be seen if they will be enforced. As for a place where you can eat dogs but not pigs, where is that? Most muslims certainly don't eat dogs, since they are considered dirty under Islam.
- coldtea 6y ago
  >But I think it's fair to say that a majority of Vietnamese people don't like this and there is a movement towards banning the dogmeat trade. Is it because most Vietnamese traditionally did not like the taste/concept, or because many today were affected by western culture (movies, series, etc.) focusing on dogs as pets? >As for a place where you can eat dogs but not pigs, where is that? Most muslims certainly don't eat dogs, since they are considered dirty under Islam. Well, Indonesia is mostly muslim, and they do eat dogs: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/9/a-taste-for-dog-indonesia-trade-persists-despite-crackdown https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/9/a-taste-for-dog-ind...

mr_toad 6y ago

Not much point raising a carnivore for meat, since you have to raise another animal to feed them. Dogs are technically omnivores, but good luck fattening a herd of dogs cheaply on vegetables.

anfilt 6y ago

First it is hard to eat something you raised as a pet. However, people have eaten coyote here in the states, and one thing is the glands can make the meat taste pretty horrid at times. If you’re choosing an animal as livestock you probably want the meat to be edible every time. Canines meat can vary too much because the various glands they have can effect the meat depending on how the animal was feeling. Let alone the cultural issues about eating a companion. Like horse meat can be taboo just because that in a lot of areas.

coldtea 6y ago

>Pigs are as smart as dogs. Why do we eat one and love the other? Well, we don't eat people with mental issues either, or think it's OK to eat them just because they aren't "smart". It was never about the smartness, it's about the utility (including being a guardian, keeping company, etc), breeding capabilities/size, and/or taste. Plus customs. Some cultures do eat dogs. Some don't eat pigs.

arkanciscan 6y ago
Pigs aren't cute either.

HashingtheCode 6y ago

I think it's good that people become aware of their dietary hypocrisy in their lives. Not many animals are treated more cruelly than pigs raised for food consumption with the exception of chickens perhaps. The problem is that culturally around the world, all kinds of animals end up on dinner plates that are unacceptable to other cultures. There is no right or wrong. The only solution is compassion for other animals suffering, and then making a conscious choice. If a person is really compassionate, they will not eat any animals. Until then, articles like this highlight the hypocrisy but that alone is not enough to enable change within human society on a whole. BTW, it is established that we do not need to eat meat to survive. People choose to eat meat because they like the taste, not for any other reason.

bigwavedave 6y ago
>If a person is really compassionate, they will not eat any animals. I had the opportunity to live in an impoverished area of the Phillipines for several years- I met many kinds of people, some of whom were the most compassionate and selfless individuals I've ever known. After seeing the meals of dogs and cats they need to eat to survive because they can't afford any other lifestyle, I can say with no reservations at all that it's absolutely ludicrous to assert that compassion and carnivorism are mutually exclusive. Your sweeping generalization is wrong, my friend; perhaps you should try to empathize with the people you deride.
- nojvek 6y ago
  True. However if they had better means they’d chose to go vegetarian right?
  - HashingtheCode 6y ago
    No. You see the abundant food choices in developed countries and yet only a small percentage of the population is vegetarian or vegan. The reason why people choose a vegetarian/vegan diet is also varied and sometimes has nothing to do with wanting to stop the suffering of animals. Losing weight, a healthier body, peer group pressure are alternate motivations. The decisive factor is not poverty. I was also in the Philippines, and I was able to eat quite well for my 3 months there. I ate rice, beans, fruits and vegetables. My costs were the same as a local.

datajack 6y ago

Another cultural bias. As usual it is the perspective of a Euro-Caucasian centric view.Like the maximum number of characters permitted for your Last Name field when filling up electronic or even physical forms. You think other cultures do not eat dog meat?

austincheney 6y ago

Pigs are substantially more intelligent than dogs. Pigs are almost as intelligent as primates. This subject ultimately comes down to utility. Until recently horses were far more valuable than dogs and horses are incredibly stupid.

johnkarahalis 6y ago
Would you say intelligence is the most important factor when determining whether it is ethical to cause suffering? Is it more ethical to cause suffering to an unintelligent person, like a toddler, than an intelligent one?
- austincheney 6y ago
  I don’t like to cause suffering to anything. I am that weak weirdo that will capture flies and spider with napkins and release them outside. Weak is not the best word. Soft is probably a better description.
anon9001 6y ago
> horses are incredibly stupid I thought horses were supposed to be smart, but TV may have influenced my thinking... > As actor Alan Young recounted: "It was initially done by putting a piece of nylon thread in his mouth. But Ed actually learned to move his lips on cue when the trainer touched his hoof. In fact, he soon learned to do it when I stopped talking during a scene! Ed was very smart."

JohnHaugeland 6y ago

Pigs will bite off your finger. Dogs will fight a burglar to the death. Also dog meat doesn't taste good. We eat both in many parts of the world. Also pigs are kept as pets.

deckarep 6y ago
Pretty sure my dog will stare at an intruder with a derp face and then run away. But, she’s still the sweetest little potato ever.
johnkarahalis 6y ago
Are friendliness and loyalty important ethical factors? Is it more ethical to cause suffering to an unfriendly and disloyal person than a friendly and loyal one?
- voxl 6y ago
  Why is reducing suffering ethical? When you squash a bug does it suffer? Most lie and say it doesn't, because the exact chemical signals aren't there, but if you could ask the bug it would not want to be crushed. What about plants? Do they enjoy being uprooted and eaten? Well, there is no chemical process that we call "suffering" so it must be okay. But, these mammals you see, they're so close to us! And we don't like it when humans suffer. Even worse, most people hate when something cute suffers, even more so then a human. There is no real greater ethical meaning here, just arbitrary lines drawn in the sand by people with strong feelings one way or the other. And yes, the same goes for the suffering of us humans.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - johnkarahalis 6y ago
    Is there evidence that plants feel pain or that bugs do not? I don't know of any, but I would definitively be interested as that could change my view. I want to go wherever the evidence leads, even if it's uncomfortable. In either case, if plants did feel pain, would a person cause more suffering by eating plants or by eating animals that eat plants?

mdifrgechd 6y ago

Bacon tastes good, porkchops taste good...

acheron 6y ago
That pig would have to be ten times more charming than Arnold on Green Acres.
- mdifrgechd 6y ago
  Thank you, I was hoping for an indication that at least somebody got it.
abosley 6y ago
+1...I was going to say that the author apparently has never tasted bacon....everything becomes much simpler after that :). If we judged our behavior based on how intelligent the species is that we are doing something to...I believe war would be a non-starter, no?

manfredo 6y ago

I'd put my money on less utility. Dogs can be used for hunting, managing herds of pasture animals, guarding things, tracking animals and people by scent, and more. Pigs can learn tricks and be trained to sniff for things (e.g. truffles). But I've never seen a pig herding sheep. Pigs are probably less useful to hunt with, since they're slower than dogs and aren't natural predators.

jmccaf 6y ago

Pigs are also a handy source of meat. They grow to a large mature size quickly, reproduce in large litters with an early sequel maturity, and (like dogs) can eat all type of food, like the las vegas pig farm on restaraunt leftovers https://www.agupdate.com/agriview/news/business/pigs-part-of-las-vegas-efforts/article_8eef3046-0bf7-5ec7-ac35-a78d0dcce34f.html https://www.agupdate.com/agriview/news/business/pigs-part-of... Anecdote: my inlaws in Colorado 50 years ago used to grow potatoes for market and raise pigs for themselves. They showed me an enormous cast iron pot dug into an earthen stove where they'd cook potato "slop" for the pigs. To this day the family cooks with lard instead of oil.

sebastialonso 6y ago
Uuuh...dogs can't eat any type of food. Everyday things like garlic, onions, avocado and chocolate, in no big a serving, can kill them in a relatively short time. Please be aware of our little friends can and should eat.
- bananabiscuit 6y ago
  In Russia, nobody knows that dogs can’t eat any type of food. The dogs there don’t know this either.
  - shoulderfake 6y ago
    Same everywhere else where we treat dogs like animals not members of the family.
  - doteka 6y ago
    Such a weird comment. Are you proud of large-scale animal abuse or what exactly is the point you are trying to make here? As someone born in the former Soviet Union, “Russia does things this way” is not a good thing.
    - bananabiscuit 6y ago
      Nope, not proud. Russia is definitely fucked up. Just bringing up an interesting fact, I do seriously wonder though, why these dietary restriction aren’t generally known in Russia, and it is interesting that the dogs do handle it. I even know one family that specifically makes an very onion based dish for their dog as a treat because she likes it so much, with no ill effect. For the record, I avoid giving my dog anything that is considered in-appropriate by American standards.

aaron695 6y ago

Why do people let Vox lecture them in their arrogant way? I haven't listened to the additional lecture part, so not sure what they go into. Pigs are way smarter than dogs. Dogs are a very gamey meat and are expensive. In Asia they only eat it rarely for special occasions or health. It costs to much. I'm not a big fan, but maybe if I had it more it'd become an every day meat like pig. But I think not. They are not bred to be eaten. They are carnivores. And bred to look emotional to humans. What interesting with this restaurant dog thief article to me is they are poor, but they do it for beer. People need something in life to live for. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xymkgw/eating-with-the-dog-thieves-of-cambodia https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xymkgw/eating-with-the-do...

timonoko 6y ago

The thing is that dogs love to eat human shit. No other animal does that. That is how they started cohabitating with humans, cleaning the cave from dead people and shit. As a proctection they also evolved to be less tasty. "Tastes like piss" said older Noko, because in the Lappland War 1944, there was food shortage, and they ate everything. Except humans only occasionally. There are several reports of human fingernails in the spam-cans, that German distributed freely to their allies in Finland.