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I don't think this rebuttal holds much water. Humans are capable of doing things that our bodies cannot. We domesticated beasts of burden in order to move heavy

I don't think this rebuttal holds much water. Humans are capable of doing things that our bodies cannot. We domesticated beasts of burden in order to move heavy objects from one place to another for instance. But consider very basic advancements. Communication for instance is something humans mastered from the outset. We are able to store and pass down information beyond the instinctual for generations, something no other animal has done. Imagine if humans needed to rediscover mathematics every generation! There are plenty of examples I could give that would provide crows with an immediate improvement in the quality of life. I think the reason they have not done these things is because they cannot, rather than because they have chosen not to.

ElFitz 6y ago
> I don't think this rebuttal holds much water. I don't know if it does. But I surely ain't convinced by gp. > Humans are capable of doing things that our bodies cannot. We domesticated beasts of burden in order to move heavy objects from one place to another for instance. I would be curious as to how a crow is supposed to domesticate an ox. Or even a dog. Birds are extremely fragile. As for communication, well, it's both a matter of intelligence and sociability. And they do seem to be able to communicate information "beyond the instinctual" (such as how to identify specific human individuals [1]) As for "can't vs won't", my point isn't that they don't want to. I don't know. I don't know what they can or cannot do. I don't know how their minds work. And I don't know what are the actual prerequisites for our species accomplishment. And that is exactly my point: assuming anything about such radically different creatures, or the actual prerequisites for our species', solely based on our limited experience and insights, is both vain and presumptuous. [1]: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2011.0957 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2011.095...

ElFitz 6y ago

> I don't think this rebuttal holds much water. I don't know if it does. But I surely ain't convinced by gp. > Humans are capable of doing things that our bodies cannot. We domesticated beasts of burden in order to move heavy objects from one place to another for instance. I would be curious as to how a crow is supposed to domesticate an ox. Or even a dog. Birds are extremely fragile. As for communication, well, it's both a matter of intelligence and sociability. And they do seem to be able to communicate information "beyond the instinctual" (such as how to identify specific human individuals [1]) As for "can't vs won't", my point isn't that they don't want to. I don't know. I don't know what they can or cannot do. I don't know how their minds work. And I don't know what are the actual prerequisites for our species accomplishment. And that is exactly my point: assuming anything about such radically different creatures, or the actual prerequisites for our species', solely based on our limited experience and insights, is both vain and presumptuous. [1]: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2011.0957 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2011.095...