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The capability attributed to crows is that they think about (analyse) their own thinking. The article arrives at that conclusion using two methods: 1. Behavio

The capability attributed to crows is that they think about (analyse) their own thinking. The article arrives at that conclusion using two methods: 1. Behavioural analysis. 2. Reverse engineering neural circuitry. Is "thinking about thinking" rare, or remarkable? Is it the defining trait that elevates humans above all other animals? The article tells us that the trait isn't unique to humans, because crows have it too.

Smoosh 6y ago
I'm a total layman in this field, so these are just unsupported thoughts. It seems to me that a brain going meta - thinking about thinking - could be what leads to a sense of self and thus consciousness. So, do these results imply those things about corvids? This has implications for AI, I believe.
- wombatmobile 6y ago
  Yes, that’s what “consciousness” is. Self awareness. All living organisms have it, including unicellular.
yetihehe 6y ago
> Is "thinking about thinking" rare, or remarkable? Is it the defining trait that elevates humans above all other animals? Sadly, I've seen people who do not have such capabilities. They seem normal until you think why they act like they do. Then you realise that you could replace their thinking processes with some simple if-then, sometimes wired very strangely and counter-intuitive.
- yourapostasy 6y ago
  Peter Watts Blindsight has some interesting commentary upon this in the form of a science-fiction story and some extensive notes [1]. It arguably is feasible to manifest sufficient behaviors to "pass", but the behaviors are not deeply introspected like you noticed. We suspect our subconscious already does a ton of heavy lifting without that introspection, so some of the theses Watts popularizes from the book's bibliography are interesting in that light. [1] https://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm#Notes https://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm#Notes

Smoosh 6y ago

I'm a total layman in this field, so these are just unsupported thoughts. It seems to me that a brain going meta - thinking about thinking - could be what leads to a sense of self and thus consciousness. So, do these results imply those things about corvids? This has implications for AI, I believe.

wombatmobile 6y ago
Yes, that’s what “consciousness” is. Self awareness. All living organisms have it, including unicellular.

yetihehe 6y ago

> Is "thinking about thinking" rare, or remarkable? Is it the defining trait that elevates humans above all other animals? Sadly, I've seen people who do not have such capabilities. They seem normal until you think why they act like they do. Then you realise that you could replace their thinking processes with some simple if-then, sometimes wired very strangely and counter-intuitive.

yourapostasy 6y ago
Peter Watts Blindsight has some interesting commentary upon this in the form of a science-fiction story and some extensive notes [1]. It arguably is feasible to manifest sufficient behaviors to "pass", but the behaviors are not deeply introspected like you noticed. We suspect our subconscious already does a ton of heavy lifting without that introspection, so some of the theses Watts popularizes from the book's bibliography are interesting in that light. [1] https://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm#Notes https://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm#Notes