5 ms·

I was effectively forced to accept a new job due to not being able to pay my rent after COVID. This role is entirely snacking and preening, so it is mildly fulf

by soared 6y ago

I was effectively forced to accept a new job due to not being able to pay my rent after COVID. This role is entirely snacking and preening, so it is mildly fulfilling because I get to close ~7 jiras every day. But, I haven’t learned much and am never challenged. While it slows my career trajectory, I am now able to spend way way less time on work and way more time on other things. What the other things are.. time will tell.

azhenley 6y ago
I sometimes wonder whether I would enjoy having a job like that, rather than one that takes all my mental and creativity energy, even if it means less pay and prestige. I could stop working at all hours and potentially do creative endeavors like write a book.
ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
I had a job like that for a long time (I was a manager). Since I didn't have a "shower clause" in my employment contract, I was free to do a lot of open-source work. It came out nicely. The work I did has become a worldwide standard. Now that I'm out of that position, I have returned to doing what I want to do. There has been some "snacking," except it's really healthy snacks, because every project I do -even the experimental ones- is done in "ship mode."
- feteru 6y ago
  What is a "shower clause" in this context?
  - NhanH 6y ago
    All your intellectual output (include during the shower) belongs to the company by default and you have to ask for permission for the company to sign away it.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
    That’s the clause that says your employer owns every idea that you come up with in the shower. These often go way beyond the “anything done with company equipment or on company time” thing, which is actually already handled by standard employment law. https://dilbert.com/strip/2006-05-20 https://dilbert.com/strip/2006-05-20
    - sizzle 6y ago
      How is this legal?
      - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
        Sometimes, it’s not. But you’ll still need to go to court to fight it, and that makes it effective.
      - hansvm 6y ago
        A sufficient amount of lobbying and precedent from underfunded defendants will make a lot of things legal (in the US). In some states like CA, shower clauses are void except for a few explicit carveouts (the ones you might expect -- do personal projects on your own time and dime, and don't directly compete with your employer), but in, e.g., a lot of east coast states shower clauses are stronger and more commonly enforced. Even when unenforceable though, you still have the threat of a court case; your employer can attempt to argue that your personal project falls into one of the exceptions that would grant them ownership of your IP, and a court case is sufficiently painful that it's a bit of a punishment in its own right even if you would win. Also as a practical matter, some companies have shower clauses that additionally stipulate the company can allow you to retain IP on your personal projects if you ask permission. That could be abused, but for large enough companies that touch enough industries that can work out in your favor because a loose interpretation of the law would actually grant them ownership of your IP anyway, but if they have a policy of generally allowing side hustles then the fact that they've explicitly signed over any ownership claims to you will give you a strong leg up (and peace of mind) in any potential court cases -- potentially allowing them to be thrown out before they start.

by soared 6y ago

azhenley 6y ago

I sometimes wonder whether I would enjoy having a job like that, rather than one that takes all my mental and creativity energy, even if it means less pay and prestige. I could stop working at all hours and potentially do creative endeavors like write a book.

ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago

I had a job like that for a long time (I was a manager). Since I didn't have a "shower clause" in my employment contract, I was free to do a lot of open-source work. It came out nicely. The work I did has become a worldwide standard. Now that I'm out of that position, I have returned to doing what I want to do. There has been some "snacking," except it's really healthy snacks, because every project I do -even the experimental ones- is done in "ship mode."

feteru 6y ago
What is a "shower clause" in this context?
- NhanH 6y ago
  All your intellectual output (include during the shower) belongs to the company by default and you have to ask for permission for the company to sign away it.
- ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
  That’s the clause that says your employer owns every idea that you come up with in the shower. These often go way beyond the “anything done with company equipment or on company time” thing, which is actually already handled by standard employment law. https://dilbert.com/strip/2006-05-20 https://dilbert.com/strip/2006-05-20
  - sizzle 6y ago
    How is this legal?
    - ChrisMarshallNY 6y ago
      Sometimes, it’s not. But you’ll still need to go to court to fight it, and that makes it effective.
    - hansvm 6y ago
      A sufficient amount of lobbying and precedent from underfunded defendants will make a lot of things legal (in the US). In some states like CA, shower clauses are void except for a few explicit carveouts (the ones you might expect -- do personal projects on your own time and dime, and don't directly compete with your employer), but in, e.g., a lot of east coast states shower clauses are stronger and more commonly enforced. Even when unenforceable though, you still have the threat of a court case; your employer can attempt to argue that your personal project falls into one of the exceptions that would grant them ownership of your IP, and a court case is sufficiently painful that it's a bit of a punishment in its own right even if you would win. Also as a practical matter, some companies have shower clauses that additionally stipulate the company can allow you to retain IP on your personal projects if you ask permission. That could be abused, but for large enough companies that touch enough industries that can work out in your favor because a loose interpretation of the law would actually grant them ownership of your IP anyway, but if they have a policy of generally allowing side hustles then the fact that they've explicitly signed over any ownership claims to you will give you a strong leg up (and peace of mind) in any potential court cases -- potentially allowing them to be thrown out before they start.