5 ms·

Where is involuntary sterilization written into the law?

DuskStar 6y ago
Wasn't the whole "involuntary sterilization" thing a single woman who had her uterus removed as treatment for cancer? Yes, arguably the doctor should have tried to remove a smaller section of that uterus... But it's not obviously the wrong call from the information I remember. Had the woman in question not been given surgery, we'd be having a similar discussion about ICE not providing appropriate medical care...
- neilk 6y ago
  I don't see a particular number cited, but a whistleblower alleges that it occurred so often, a particular doctor was known as "the uterus collector". (Her complaint is largely about failure to follow proper procedures for COVID, and this "uterus collector" thing is not the bulk of her story. Obviously that's a pretty explosive allegation though.) https://www.democracynow.org/2020/9/22/dawn_wooten_ice_forced_sterilization https://www.democracynow.org/2020/9/22/dawn_wooten_ice_force...
- IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
  No, it was dozens, potentially hundreds.
  - DuskStar 6y ago
    That was the complaint, but the AP at least was completely unable to substantiate that. At least as of a week ago... https://apnews.com/f2008d23c5f9087f4214d9722dfb097e https://apnews.com/f2008d23c5f9087f4214d9722dfb097e
tuna-piano 6y ago
In fact it is written into the law! It is illegal and the doctor who is suspected of potentially performing those procedures (either without proper consent or with poor communication or totally fraudulent) is being investigated. The fact that someone crosses our border illegally with nothing and is given world class medical treatment for no charge is incredible. If this doctor did wrong things (potentially just as a way to bill additional charges?) that is obviously terrible. But I don't think that negatively reflects on ICE at all.
- wrsh07 6y ago
  It absolutely reflects negatively on ICE: these are people in their custody. Instead they are committing genocide (see this article about what the Chinese government is doing: https://www.justsecurity.org/71615/chinas-forced-sterilization-of-uyghur-women-violates-clear-international-law/ https://www.justsecurity.org/71615/chinas-forced-sterilizati...)
  - tuna-piano 6y ago
    Do you really believe that if there is proof of this doctor performing unnecessary surgeries that he will not go to jail? The difference between China and the US is not that people in the US don't do bad things.... of course people do bad things in the US. But when it can be proven that people here broke laws, they do go to jail.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      > Do you really believe that if there is proof of this doctor performing unnecessary surgeries that he will not go to jail? Absolutely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity For an example of how pervasive and silly QI has gotten: https://reason.com/2020/05/19/qualified-immunity-supreme-court-jessop-theft-kelsay-police-brutality/ https://reason.com/2020/05/19/qualified-immunity-supreme-cou... "Last year, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit Court decided that two police officers in Fresno, California, who allegedly stole more than $225,000 in assets while executing a search warrant, could not be sued over the incident. Though "the City Officers ought to have recognized that the alleged theft was morally wrong," the unanimous 9th Circuit panel said, the officers "did not have clear notice that it violated the Fourth Amendment."" > But when it can be proven that people here broke laws, they do go to jail. I mean, sometimes. Sometimes they kill four people while drunk and get probation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch
      - tuna-piano 6y ago
        This is incorrect and a misunderstanding of qualified immunity. Qualified immunity refers to not being allowed to sue for those officer's personal property. It has nothing to do with the criminal consequences (ie going to jail). Those officers absolutely can be sent to prison.

Wasn't the whole "involuntary sterilization" thing a single woman who had her uterus removed as treatment for cancer? Yes, arguably the doctor should have tried to remove a smaller section of that uterus... But it's not obviously the wrong call from the information I remember. Had the woman in question not been given surgery, we'd be having a similar discussion about ICE not providing appropriate medical care...

neilk 6y ago
I don't see a particular number cited, but a whistleblower alleges that it occurred so often, a particular doctor was known as "the uterus collector". (Her complaint is largely about failure to follow proper procedures for COVID, and this "uterus collector" thing is not the bulk of her story. Obviously that's a pretty explosive allegation though.) https://www.democracynow.org/2020/9/22/dawn_wooten_ice_forced_sterilization https://www.democracynow.org/2020/9/22/dawn_wooten_ice_force...
IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
No, it was dozens, potentially hundreds.
- DuskStar 6y ago
  That was the complaint, but the AP at least was completely unable to substantiate that. At least as of a week ago... https://apnews.com/f2008d23c5f9087f4214d9722dfb097e https://apnews.com/f2008d23c5f9087f4214d9722dfb097e

tuna-piano 6y ago

In fact it is written into the law! It is illegal and the doctor who is suspected of potentially performing those procedures (either without proper consent or with poor communication or totally fraudulent) is being investigated. The fact that someone crosses our border illegally with nothing and is given world class medical treatment for no charge is incredible. If this doctor did wrong things (potentially just as a way to bill additional charges?) that is obviously terrible. But I don't think that negatively reflects on ICE at all.

wrsh07 6y ago
It absolutely reflects negatively on ICE: these are people in their custody. Instead they are committing genocide (see this article about what the Chinese government is doing: https://www.justsecurity.org/71615/chinas-forced-sterilization-of-uyghur-women-violates-clear-international-law/ https://www.justsecurity.org/71615/chinas-forced-sterilizati...)
- tuna-piano 6y ago
  Do you really believe that if there is proof of this doctor performing unnecessary surgeries that he will not go to jail? The difference between China and the US is not that people in the US don't do bad things.... of course people do bad things in the US. But when it can be proven that people here broke laws, they do go to jail.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    > Do you really believe that if there is proof of this doctor performing unnecessary surgeries that he will not go to jail? Absolutely. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity For an example of how pervasive and silly QI has gotten: https://reason.com/2020/05/19/qualified-immunity-supreme-court-jessop-theft-kelsay-police-brutality/ https://reason.com/2020/05/19/qualified-immunity-supreme-cou... "Last year, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit Court decided that two police officers in Fresno, California, who allegedly stole more than $225,000 in assets while executing a search warrant, could not be sued over the incident. Though "the City Officers ought to have recognized that the alleged theft was morally wrong," the unanimous 9th Circuit panel said, the officers "did not have clear notice that it violated the Fourth Amendment."" > But when it can be proven that people here broke laws, they do go to jail. I mean, sometimes. Sometimes they kill four people while drunk and get probation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Couch
    - tuna-piano 6y ago
      This is incorrect and a misunderstanding of qualified immunity. Qualified immunity refers to not being allowed to sue for those officer's personal property. It has nothing to do with the criminal consequences (ie going to jail). Those officers absolutely can be sent to prison.