6 ms·

> The big complaint is about lack of snacks! Free food, including meals. If Facebook is anything like Google, some single people were literally using that for

> The big complaint is about lack of snacks! Free food, including meals. If Facebook is anything like Google, some single people were literally using that for every meal and snack 5/7 days per week. It's tasty, nutritious food, and you don't have to prepare it or do dishes. Sure, an adult should be able to take care of this on their own, but this is a major perk, not just a box of granola bars on a shelf. It might cost them $100 per week (~$5,000 per year) to match their food intake via cooking at home. Much more if they start ordering a lot of take-out. That's a fair chunk of compensation they're not getting anymore. This absence is not at the top of my list of pandemic or employer complaints but I can see how it might be near the top of someone else's.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
_qulr 6y ago
From what I've seen, I don't think $5K per year is a big chunk of a Facebook engineer's compensation. In any case, the bigger issue is that this situation exposes how utterly dependent these engineers are on their employer, not just for money but for basic life functionality. Only a tiny number of companies in the world offer this level of "service" to employees. What happens if and when they no longer work at Facebook? The company has seemingly turned its employees into helpless children, or at least never forced them to grow up after leaving college. If "continue to live like you're in the dorm" is a "perk", maybe it shouldn't be.
- scsilver 6y ago
  I think thats an unfair, and frankly agist extrapolation. I can cook for myself every day and there is plenty of inefficiency in that action. Its wasteful, the food isnt as good as a professional, I have to shop and waste gas, I have to pay retail pricing. Or I could use the shared resource thats done professionally and efficiently. We are engineers, are we not programmed to reduce complexity and waste. I dont think its fair yo assume they couldnt cook for themselves if they thought it was needed.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    > I think thats an unfair, and frankly agist extrapolation. Is it ageist to point out that Facebook is ageist in its hiring and operations? Or that Facebook encourages its employees to be overly dependent on Facebook? What some would view as a "perk" — the company providing every meal — others would view as a downside. What if you prefer to be home and have meals with your family? "A major sell to candidates is our office perks include free food" "with work from home, we’ve lost a huge financial part of our package" For those who prefer not eating meals at the office, how fair is it that this is considered a significant perk of Facebook employment? I'd say that whole thing could be considered kind of ageist. It's certainly highly unusual, compared to most other workplaces in the world. You mentioned "inefficiency", but it seems that efficiency is ruling out relationships with people outside of work. ;-)
    - scsilver 6y ago
      I wasn't worried about facebook, mostly just commenting that its unfair to assume these individuals who creat 400k+ in value to their companies a year aren't able to cook for themselves if they have to because they are young. I think its more likely that they are taking advantage of economic incentives. I dont really have an opinion about facebooks agism in their hiring. I just think you are making an unfounded assumption.
      - _qulr 6y ago
        > I think its more likely that they are taking advantage of economic incentives. My question is, who is taking advantage of whom? As I said originally, "one may fairly ask whether Facebook's hiring process produced this result." It seems like Facebook specifically targets people who are amenable to Facebook's "caretaker" benefits, and then encourages those people to become dependent on those benefits. If you work for Facebook, you may have the choice of "taking advantage" of those incentives, but most people outside of Facebook don't have the choice: they're forced to take care of themselves. This is not necessarily a bad thing though, because self-reliance is an important life skill. If short-term economic incentives prevent you from learning important life skills, this may actually be to your long-term disadvantage. I'm not sure Facebook is doing anyone any favors in this respect. If you think about it, why would Facebook approach hiring and employment any different from how Facebook approaches everything else? The goal is ultimately to increase "engagement" with Facebook.
- scottlamb 6y ago
  They haven't been in the office since March iirc. If they were utterly dependent on this perk, they would literally be dead by now. If you think they're spoiled for ever having this perk, using it, missing it, and/or complaining about its absence, I won't try to convince you otherwise. I agree it's something the vast majority of people never had, much less get to enjoy during the pandemic. I'm just adding some context which I thought you might be missing when describing it as "snacks". Anyway, I'm going to shut up on the topic now, as it's not as important to me as content moderation. I don't work for Facebook and don't plan to (sorry, recruiter who emailed me yesterday), so their employee perks affect me only very loosely as they shape industry trends. In contrast, I think the content moderation has a surprisingly huge effect on everyone. Facebook is where a lot of people find the content that shapes their opinions. It may sway the US presidential election.
- raydev 6y ago
  > I don't think $5K per year is a big chunk of a Facebook engineer's compensation Whether it's <1% or >10% of their compensation, any cut should be acknowledged. You could feed yourself well, delicious and healthy food, 2000 wholesome calories a day, for 5 days a week. 20 days a month where you effectively don't have to buy groceries or eat out. Food is a part of the compensation package at FB and other companies where money sloshes around in giant buckets. > What happens if and when they no longer work at Facebook? They get paid less. Plenty of people have left companies like FB et al for smaller companies where you have to buy your own lunch and they're fine. Not sure why you're so excited to pull a "kids these days" here.
  - _qulr 6y ago
    > Not sure why you're so excited to pull a "kids these days" here. I wouldn't say it's kids these days. Facebook employees are not representative of the wider public. The question that really made me shake my head wasn't the one about food but rather "Can we build a quarantined Facebook city? Like, buying an island and all of us working there?"
_vertigo 6y ago
Never mind the fact that Facebook probably pays better than 80% of tech companies Never mind the fact that tech salaries are already insane Never mind the fact that there is a global pandemic and corresponding economic uncertainty Never mind the fact that millions of people are out of work, can't afford to feed their families, and facing one of the biggest eviction crises of all time while being completely abandoned by the government Never mind all that - where is my free food?
- themacguffinman 6y ago
  What are you saying, exactly? People can't complain if others have it worse? It's hard for me to think of a more charitable interpretation of your comment, which seems to plainly chastise Facebook employees for voicing complaints during the existence of other big problems in the world.
  - ghiculescu 6y ago
    People who can’t have a sense of perspective about temporarily not getting a free lunch shouldn’t be making decisions about what content is censored on Facebook.
  - smsm42 6y ago
    They can complain about anything, it's just their complaints, in context, sound so trivial and entitled than it's hard to take them seriously. Oh the hardships! Oh the terrors! Now they only have a secure job in their own home while earning mid-six-figures! And also getting $1000 bonus! How can a human being be expected to survive on that?! Buying their own La Croix, like some kind of peasants!
hinkley 6y ago
The Towel Debacle for Microsoft wasn't about towels. I doubt this is about food. We fight proxy wars all the time because we can't seem to bring ourselves to say what's really bothering us. All these other minor problems accumulate to make the unspeakable thing intolerable.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

_qulr 6y ago

From what I've seen, I don't think $5K per year is a big chunk of a Facebook engineer's compensation. In any case, the bigger issue is that this situation exposes how utterly dependent these engineers are on their employer, not just for money but for basic life functionality. Only a tiny number of companies in the world offer this level of "service" to employees. What happens if and when they no longer work at Facebook? The company has seemingly turned its employees into helpless children, or at least never forced them to grow up after leaving college. If "continue to live like you're in the dorm" is a "perk", maybe it shouldn't be.

scsilver 6y ago
I think thats an unfair, and frankly agist extrapolation. I can cook for myself every day and there is plenty of inefficiency in that action. Its wasteful, the food isnt as good as a professional, I have to shop and waste gas, I have to pay retail pricing. Or I could use the shared resource thats done professionally and efficiently. We are engineers, are we not programmed to reduce complexity and waste. I dont think its fair yo assume they couldnt cook for themselves if they thought it was needed.
- _qulr 6y ago
  > I think thats an unfair, and frankly agist extrapolation. Is it ageist to point out that Facebook is ageist in its hiring and operations? Or that Facebook encourages its employees to be overly dependent on Facebook? What some would view as a "perk" — the company providing every meal — others would view as a downside. What if you prefer to be home and have meals with your family? "A major sell to candidates is our office perks include free food" "with work from home, we’ve lost a huge financial part of our package" For those who prefer not eating meals at the office, how fair is it that this is considered a significant perk of Facebook employment? I'd say that whole thing could be considered kind of ageist. It's certainly highly unusual, compared to most other workplaces in the world. You mentioned "inefficiency", but it seems that efficiency is ruling out relationships with people outside of work. ;-)
  - scsilver 6y ago
    I wasn't worried about facebook, mostly just commenting that its unfair to assume these individuals who creat 400k+ in value to their companies a year aren't able to cook for themselves if they have to because they are young. I think its more likely that they are taking advantage of economic incentives. I dont really have an opinion about facebooks agism in their hiring. I just think you are making an unfounded assumption.
    - _qulr 6y ago
      > I think its more likely that they are taking advantage of economic incentives. My question is, who is taking advantage of whom? As I said originally, "one may fairly ask whether Facebook's hiring process produced this result." It seems like Facebook specifically targets people who are amenable to Facebook's "caretaker" benefits, and then encourages those people to become dependent on those benefits. If you work for Facebook, you may have the choice of "taking advantage" of those incentives, but most people outside of Facebook don't have the choice: they're forced to take care of themselves. This is not necessarily a bad thing though, because self-reliance is an important life skill. If short-term economic incentives prevent you from learning important life skills, this may actually be to your long-term disadvantage. I'm not sure Facebook is doing anyone any favors in this respect. If you think about it, why would Facebook approach hiring and employment any different from how Facebook approaches everything else? The goal is ultimately to increase "engagement" with Facebook.
scottlamb 6y ago
They haven't been in the office since March iirc. If they were utterly dependent on this perk, they would literally be dead by now. If you think they're spoiled for ever having this perk, using it, missing it, and/or complaining about its absence, I won't try to convince you otherwise. I agree it's something the vast majority of people never had, much less get to enjoy during the pandemic. I'm just adding some context which I thought you might be missing when describing it as "snacks". Anyway, I'm going to shut up on the topic now, as it's not as important to me as content moderation. I don't work for Facebook and don't plan to (sorry, recruiter who emailed me yesterday), so their employee perks affect me only very loosely as they shape industry trends. In contrast, I think the content moderation has a surprisingly huge effect on everyone. Facebook is where a lot of people find the content that shapes their opinions. It may sway the US presidential election.
raydev 6y ago
> I don't think $5K per year is a big chunk of a Facebook engineer's compensation Whether it's <1% or >10% of their compensation, any cut should be acknowledged. You could feed yourself well, delicious and healthy food, 2000 wholesome calories a day, for 5 days a week. 20 days a month where you effectively don't have to buy groceries or eat out. Food is a part of the compensation package at FB and other companies where money sloshes around in giant buckets. > What happens if and when they no longer work at Facebook? They get paid less. Plenty of people have left companies like FB et al for smaller companies where you have to buy your own lunch and they're fine. Not sure why you're so excited to pull a "kids these days" here.
- _qulr 6y ago
  > Not sure why you're so excited to pull a "kids these days" here. I wouldn't say it's kids these days. Facebook employees are not representative of the wider public. The question that really made me shake my head wasn't the one about food but rather "Can we build a quarantined Facebook city? Like, buying an island and all of us working there?"

_vertigo 6y ago

Never mind the fact that Facebook probably pays better than 80% of tech companies Never mind the fact that tech salaries are already insane Never mind the fact that there is a global pandemic and corresponding economic uncertainty Never mind the fact that millions of people are out of work, can't afford to feed their families, and facing one of the biggest eviction crises of all time while being completely abandoned by the government Never mind all that - where is my free food?

themacguffinman 6y ago
What are you saying, exactly? People can't complain if others have it worse? It's hard for me to think of a more charitable interpretation of your comment, which seems to plainly chastise Facebook employees for voicing complaints during the existence of other big problems in the world.
- ghiculescu 6y ago
  People who can’t have a sense of perspective about temporarily not getting a free lunch shouldn’t be making decisions about what content is censored on Facebook.
- smsm42 6y ago
  They can complain about anything, it's just their complaints, in context, sound so trivial and entitled than it's hard to take them seriously. Oh the hardships! Oh the terrors! Now they only have a secure job in their own home while earning mid-six-figures! And also getting $1000 bonus! How can a human being be expected to survive on that?! Buying their own La Croix, like some kind of peasants!

hinkley 6y ago

The Towel Debacle for Microsoft wasn't about towels. I doubt this is about food. We fight proxy wars all the time because we can't seem to bring ourselves to say what's really bothering us. All these other minor problems accumulate to make the unspeakable thing intolerable.