3 ms·

> I don't see the relevance? Microsoft does not allow any other company to distribute digital games for Microsoft consoles. You, nor anyone else, may create an

> I don't see the relevance? Microsoft does not allow any other company to distribute digital games for Microsoft consoles. You, nor anyone else, may create an Xbox store and sell digital games that will run on Xbox consoles. While I would even argue for openness there but you are comparing a specific use platform to a general computing platform. > Is that not what we have? If you don't like Apple then you can go buy an Android phone. If you don't like macOS you can go run Windows or Linux. Who has the monopoly here? I was talking about few companies owning everything in different verticals. I would want a independent music platform like Spotify to flourish and not just Apple Music. I would want an independent movie platform like Netflix to flourish and not just iTunes. You can see where I am going with this. > If smartphones are computing platforms, then Apple doesn't have a monopoly, because then you can choose another computing platform. Apple products as computing platforms are an extreme minority. Apple is not a minority by any stretch. They own half of the smartphones sold in US and a significant share in the world. If I am a platform like Spotify I have to be on it, otherwise I lose a significant userbase. Adding to this, a service like Hey saw 90% of the revenue come from iPhones. They were signing up users on the web, just turns out that 90% of their paying users had iPhones. Adding to that, Spotify has to compete with Apple Music which doesn't pay the 30% tax, gets free placement on the phone and store and deep integrations with their product. As a developer does this seem fair to you?

cwhiz 6y ago
>While I would even argue for openness there but you are comparing a specific use platform to a general computing platform. I don't understand the distinction you are trying to make. How is iOS fundamentally different from the Xbox OS? Microsoft owns the OS and the hardware. Microsoft have several variants of the Xbox hardware for sale, and have a complete monopoly on digital game distribution through their OS. >Apple is not a minority by any stretch. They own half of the smartphones sold in US and a significant share in the world. If I am a platform like Spotify I have to be on it, otherwise I lose a significant userbase. Adding to this, a service like Hey saw 90% of the revenue come from iPhones. They were signing up users on the web, just turns out that 90% of their paying users had iPhones. According to IDC[0], Apple commands 14.4% of the worldwide market share. In the US, Apple commands a little under half [1]. Apple is unequivocally a minority player in the smartphone market. >Adding to that, Spotify has to compete with Apple Music which doesn't pay the 30% tax, gets free placement on the phone and store and deep integrations with their product. Spotify chooses to not deeply integrate with Apple. WatchOS allowed third party streaming several years ago and Spotify is one of the few music services out there that still refuse to support it. That's on Spotify and Spotify alone. The lack of a fee on the store could be considered unfair, but is no more fair or unfair than Google offering a music service, which they do. >As a developer does this seem fair to you? Not really, but that is beside the point to me. We have a free market and there are alternatives to Apple. If Apple has a monopoly then I think we need to fundamentally blow up this entire market, because by that definition nearly every tech company out there has a monopoly. I believe this line of reasoning would forbid Epic from exclusively selling cars in Rocket League, and I find that absurd. If I don't like the Apple platform I can go to a competitor and support them instead. [0]: https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/os https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/os [1]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held-by-smartphone-platforms-in-the-united-states/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held...
- actuator 6y ago
  > How is iOS fundamentally different from the Xbox OS? If I have to explain in brief, because the intended use for it is to be a multipurpose OS just how Windows/OS X were. Xbox OS is about games and media streaming, while iOS/Android in addition to what Xbox OS does are about image editing, word processing, managing email, browsing web and much more. They are the spiritual successors to the laptop/desktop OSs. Platforms like these have an immense amount of power as they interface with plethora of devices and services. From a waiter taking order on his phone to a project manager leaving notes on docs on the go. The sheer amount of use cases for these platforms are huge. They inherit and expand the ecosystems that PCs had, there is trillions of dollars of value there for software and hardware makers. The ecosystem should not get consolidated in the hands of few companies. > According to IDC[0], Apple commands 14.4% of the worldwide market share. In the US, Apple commands a little under half [1]. Apple is unequivocally a minority player in the smartphone market. I think we are going around in circles on this. Even 14% worldwide is significant enough for me to ask for regulation but the right number to look at is, app revenue generated. I gave the example of Hey already, it is not that lopsided for everyone but it is significant. As a company, you can't afford to leave that aside. > WatchOS allowed third party streaming several years ago That is just one integration. It gets to be the first and even sole one on many other occasions. > but is no more fair or unfair than Google offering a music service, which they do. Google allows you to bypass this. Apple acting like a hypocrite even makes use of this. [1] > I believe this line of reasoning would forbid Epic from exclusively selling cars in Rocket League, You are again going for weird analogies. I have explained the rationale in this comment and the comments before. > If I don't like the Apple platform I can go to a competitor and support them instead. Except for Macbooks, that's what I did. I am not talking about my choice as an end user here, I am talking about my choice as a developer. If 50% of my revenue is from iOS, I really can't afford to not be there. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23564247 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23564247
  - mirthflat83 6y ago
    > Even 14% worldwide is significant enough for me to ask for regulation Lmao.
  - 6y ago

cwhiz 6y ago

>While I would even argue for openness there but you are comparing a specific use platform to a general computing platform. I don't understand the distinction you are trying to make. How is iOS fundamentally different from the Xbox OS? Microsoft owns the OS and the hardware. Microsoft have several variants of the Xbox hardware for sale, and have a complete monopoly on digital game distribution through their OS. >Apple is not a minority by any stretch. They own half of the smartphones sold in US and a significant share in the world. If I am a platform like Spotify I have to be on it, otherwise I lose a significant userbase. Adding to this, a service like Hey saw 90% of the revenue come from iPhones. They were signing up users on the web, just turns out that 90% of their paying users had iPhones. According to IDC[0], Apple commands 14.4% of the worldwide market share. In the US, Apple commands a little under half [1]. Apple is unequivocally a minority player in the smartphone market. >Adding to that, Spotify has to compete with Apple Music which doesn't pay the 30% tax, gets free placement on the phone and store and deep integrations with their product. Spotify chooses to not deeply integrate with Apple. WatchOS allowed third party streaming several years ago and Spotify is one of the few music services out there that still refuse to support it. That's on Spotify and Spotify alone. The lack of a fee on the store could be considered unfair, but is no more fair or unfair than Google offering a music service, which they do. >As a developer does this seem fair to you? Not really, but that is beside the point to me. We have a free market and there are alternatives to Apple. If Apple has a monopoly then I think we need to fundamentally blow up this entire market, because by that definition nearly every tech company out there has a monopoly. I believe this line of reasoning would forbid Epic from exclusively selling cars in Rocket League, and I find that absurd. If I don't like the Apple platform I can go to a competitor and support them instead. [0]: https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/os https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/os [1]: https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held-by-smartphone-platforms-in-the-united-states/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held...

actuator 6y ago
> How is iOS fundamentally different from the Xbox OS? If I have to explain in brief, because the intended use for it is to be a multipurpose OS just how Windows/OS X were. Xbox OS is about games and media streaming, while iOS/Android in addition to what Xbox OS does are about image editing, word processing, managing email, browsing web and much more. They are the spiritual successors to the laptop/desktop OSs. Platforms like these have an immense amount of power as they interface with plethora of devices and services. From a waiter taking order on his phone to a project manager leaving notes on docs on the go. The sheer amount of use cases for these platforms are huge. They inherit and expand the ecosystems that PCs had, there is trillions of dollars of value there for software and hardware makers. The ecosystem should not get consolidated in the hands of few companies. > According to IDC[0], Apple commands 14.4% of the worldwide market share. In the US, Apple commands a little under half [1]. Apple is unequivocally a minority player in the smartphone market. I think we are going around in circles on this. Even 14% worldwide is significant enough for me to ask for regulation but the right number to look at is, app revenue generated. I gave the example of Hey already, it is not that lopsided for everyone but it is significant. As a company, you can't afford to leave that aside. > WatchOS allowed third party streaming several years ago That is just one integration. It gets to be the first and even sole one on many other occasions. > but is no more fair or unfair than Google offering a music service, which they do. Google allows you to bypass this. Apple acting like a hypocrite even makes use of this. [1] > I believe this line of reasoning would forbid Epic from exclusively selling cars in Rocket League, You are again going for weird analogies. I have explained the rationale in this comment and the comments before. > If I don't like the Apple platform I can go to a competitor and support them instead. Except for Macbooks, that's what I did. I am not talking about my choice as an end user here, I am talking about my choice as a developer. If 50% of my revenue is from iOS, I really can't afford to not be there. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23564247 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23564247
- mirthflat83 6y ago
  > Even 14% worldwide is significant enough for me to ask for regulation Lmao.
- 6y ago