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The "bad behavior"? Are you joking. You realize people pay apple EXTRA because they value their product? Their product holds its value far LONGER on the seconda

The "bad behavior"? Are you joking. You realize people pay apple EXTRA because they value their product? Their product holds its value far LONGER on the secondary market because it is maintained so well? You can get unlocked android phones and install whatever you want. But the reality for our parents / grandparents etc is that the folks who want to have root on their device want to scam them, auto bill them with non-cancelable billing etc etc etc, market to them by tracking everything, turn all their data over to the govt. We have basically one company who is trying to do a consumer / privacy first play. They went toe to toe with the DOJ to avoid unlocking the phone of a known shooter. As more and more of our life lands on these devices, I think this is the smart play. Go use another phone if you don't like it.

echelon 6y ago
> Go use another phone if you don't like it. Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I didn't have to pay for them before Apple sunk their claws in. Even if there wasn't a tax, the lack of freedom is what really gets me. Apple built itself atop open source. They leveraged it to gain control over 40% of the CPUs used by consumers. Now we can't run code for these people. I applaud their privacy stance. But freedom to run software is a separate issue.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  My experience with freedom to run software resulted in me spending an inordinate amount of time dealing with malware. If anyone wants to come up with a freedom to run software alternative that doesn’t result in me dealing with malware, I’m open to it. Until then, I have to pay Apple, because I don’t have time to deal with the alternatives currently available. Edit: >Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I didn't have to pay for them before Apple sunk their claws in. I might be part of that audience, but when I was purchasing tablets for my business, I chose Apple, because I didn’t want to deal with malware or google support. I knew I could rely on Apple to not have malware and to provide in person support in reasonable time. I’m also willing to pay 30% extra for a subscription via the App Store since I know it’s dead easy to cancel it. I am aware of Apple’s injustices with their arbitrary rules and enforcement and how they are able to screw over developers. But I need to move on with life, and I need something that just works.
  - OCASM 6y ago
    Is the macOS ecosystem filled with malware?
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I don't know what you mean by filled, but I know malware exists for macOS. I am not aware of malware for iOS.
  - manigandham 6y ago
    Having an alternative to the App Store doesn't mean you have to stop using the App Store, or suffer any reduction in quality in the apps available on the App Store. Nothing changes for you in exchange for more freedom for others.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I assume a device's security is improved by being hampering the ability to install software. Can I rely on an Android device to not be tampered with or have malware just as much as I can an iOS device? I don't mean secure as in the NSA can't break into it. I mean secure as in normal people can't mess it up clicking bullshit links in WhatsApp messages.
      - dec0dedab0de 6y ago
        I'm guessing you don't use Android at all, but it is very difficult to accidentally install something outside of the play store. I would even say it is tricky to purposely install something outside of the play store.
        lotsofpulp 6y ago
        I did from 2010 to 2015 and while I didn't have a problem, my dad was able to get malware on his. He actually was iOS from 2010 to 2014 then android 2015 to 2018, and then he kept messing his device up so I told him I'm not helping him unless he goes to iOS. All I know is I needed a 100% guarantee the device won't be tampered with by random people for my business and that other than turning it off and on, there was no tech support needed. To me, this meant going with Apple.
- bad_user 6y ago
  > But freedom to run software is a separate issue. It isn't, because it's tied to security. I don't understand why a company, like Apple, shouldn't be allowed to create locked-down devices. This practice isn't new either. Locked down game consoles have existed since the dawn of computing. What makes this situation special? Don't like it, then don't buy it. Speaking of the situation at hand, Epic did in fact distribute Fortnite outside of Google Play. Until they eventually caved, because distribution via Google Play is more lucrative. This isn't about your freedom, they couldn't care less. This is about them making Apple succumb to their demands, while still using the App Store as a distribution channel. And yes, it matters what "champions" are fighting for your "freedoms". When the likes of Epic are your champion, maybe you're on the wrong side of it.
  - belltaco 6y ago
    Can you explain what blocking services like XCloud and Stadia has to do with security or privacy? Many of the policies are about a pure money grab.
    - nodamage 6y ago
      One reason might be related to xCloud bypassing Apple's parental controls for both screen time and in-app purchasing that Apple requires for games distributed via the App Store. I expect Microsoft will work with Apple to resolve these issues and xCloud will be eventually be released in the App Store once they are resolved.
- spideymans 6y ago
  > Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I didn't have to pay for them before Apple sunk their claws in. A big part of the reason why I bought an iPhone is the App Store. That’s because the App Store imposes rules on software developers, such as Facebook, which have consistently proven that they don’t particularly care about privacy, security or other user-centric concerns. If I felt like I could trust these developers, maybe I wouldn’t be on an iPhone. But they haven’t earned my trust.
manigandham 6y ago
> "Go use another phone if you don't like it." We, as consumers, should demand better behavior from trillion dollar corporations before they run our lives completely.
dang 6y ago
Would you please not post in the flamewar style to HN? Your comments in this thread are standing out as particularly flamebaity. We're trying to avoid that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
tsbinz 6y ago
It's sad that people fall for the "privacy first". I recently got a new Macbook and opting out of the cloud services was a real hassle, and sometimes the settings pop back on updates. Apple wants your data, they just don't want anybody else to have it. I buy some of my devices from apple because I like the hardware. The walled garden is annoying and has nothing to do with resale value. The resale value is high because of continuing updates and nice hardware - you'd factory reset everything you buy second hand anyway.

echelon 6y ago

> Go use another phone if you don't like it. Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I didn't have to pay for them before Apple sunk their claws in. Even if there wasn't a tax, the lack of freedom is what really gets me. Apple built itself atop open source. They leveraged it to gain control over 40% of the CPUs used by consumers. Now we can't run code for these people. I applaud their privacy stance. But freedom to run software is a separate issue.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
My experience with freedom to run software resulted in me spending an inordinate amount of time dealing with malware. If anyone wants to come up with a freedom to run software alternative that doesn’t result in me dealing with malware, I’m open to it. Until then, I have to pay Apple, because I don’t have time to deal with the alternatives currently available. Edit: >Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I didn't have to pay for them before Apple sunk their claws in. I might be part of that audience, but when I was purchasing tablets for my business, I chose Apple, because I didn’t want to deal with malware or google support. I knew I could rely on Apple to not have malware and to provide in person support in reasonable time. I’m also willing to pay 30% extra for a subscription via the App Store since I know it’s dead easy to cancel it. I am aware of Apple’s injustices with their arbitrary rules and enforcement and how they are able to screw over developers. But I need to move on with life, and I need something that just works.
- OCASM 6y ago
  Is the macOS ecosystem filled with malware?
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I don't know what you mean by filled, but I know malware exists for macOS. I am not aware of malware for iOS.
- manigandham 6y ago
  Having an alternative to the App Store doesn't mean you have to stop using the App Store, or suffer any reduction in quality in the apps available on the App Store. Nothing changes for you in exchange for more freedom for others.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I assume a device's security is improved by being hampering the ability to install software. Can I rely on an Android device to not be tampered with or have malware just as much as I can an iOS device? I don't mean secure as in the NSA can't break into it. I mean secure as in normal people can't mess it up clicking bullshit links in WhatsApp messages.
    - dec0dedab0de 6y ago
      I'm guessing you don't use Android at all, but it is very difficult to accidentally install something outside of the play store. I would even say it is tricky to purposely install something outside of the play store.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        I did from 2010 to 2015 and while I didn't have a problem, my dad was able to get malware on his. He actually was iOS from 2010 to 2014 then android 2015 to 2018, and then he kept messing his device up so I told him I'm not helping him unless he goes to iOS. All I know is I needed a 100% guarantee the device won't be tampered with by random people for my business and that other than turning it off and on, there was no tech support needed. To me, this meant going with Apple.
bad_user 6y ago
> But freedom to run software is a separate issue. It isn't, because it's tied to security. I don't understand why a company, like Apple, shouldn't be allowed to create locked-down devices. This practice isn't new either. Locked down game consoles have existed since the dawn of computing. What makes this situation special? Don't like it, then don't buy it. Speaking of the situation at hand, Epic did in fact distribute Fortnite outside of Google Play. Until they eventually caved, because distribution via Google Play is more lucrative. This isn't about your freedom, they couldn't care less. This is about them making Apple succumb to their demands, while still using the App Store as a distribution channel. And yes, it matters what "champions" are fighting for your "freedoms". When the likes of Epic are your champion, maybe you're on the wrong side of it.
- belltaco 6y ago
  Can you explain what blocking services like XCloud and Stadia has to do with security or privacy? Many of the policies are about a pure money grab.
  - nodamage 6y ago
    One reason might be related to xCloud bypassing Apple's parental controls for both screen time and in-app purchasing that Apple requires for games distributed via the App Store. I expect Microsoft will work with Apple to resolve these issues and xCloud will be eventually be released in the App Store once they are resolved.
spideymans 6y ago
> Half of my audience is on your favorite device. I didn't have to pay for them before Apple sunk their claws in. A big part of the reason why I bought an iPhone is the App Store. That’s because the App Store imposes rules on software developers, such as Facebook, which have consistently proven that they don’t particularly care about privacy, security or other user-centric concerns. If I felt like I could trust these developers, maybe I wouldn’t be on an iPhone. But they haven’t earned my trust.

manigandham 6y ago

> "Go use another phone if you don't like it." We, as consumers, should demand better behavior from trillion dollar corporations before they run our lives completely.

dang 6y ago

Would you please not post in the flamewar style to HN? Your comments in this thread are standing out as particularly flamebaity. We're trying to avoid that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

tsbinz 6y ago

It's sad that people fall for the "privacy first". I recently got a new Macbook and opting out of the cloud services was a real hassle, and sometimes the settings pop back on updates. Apple wants your data, they just don't want anybody else to have it. I buy some of my devices from apple because I like the hardware. The walled garden is annoying and has nothing to do with resale value. The resale value is high because of continuing updates and nice hardware - you'd factory reset everything you buy second hand anyway.