6 ms·

No... many people actually appreciate the walled garden as consumers.

by kemiller 6y ago

eertami 6y ago
Sure, but it's of course surprising such people would be present on HN.
- DevKoala 6y ago
  Why? As a developer it sounds like a nightmare, but as a costumer, I like it. It makes for a great experience.
  - stefano 6y ago
    Because it's as far as you can go from being a "Hacker".
    - AlexandrB 6y ago
      As a signifier of technological anti-establishment thinking I think that label is pretty meaningless at this point. Most of the "Hackers" of my generation grew up to either vacuum up user data without their consent, micro-target advertising (including political propaganda), or fund those that do the above two things.
    - ilikehurdles 6y ago
      People here are consumers too. To give my anecdata: I used to subscribe to the NYT and made the mistake of not subscribing using Apple's subscriptions mechanism. When I wanted to cancel for a while, I had to go through a whole spiel with their sales rep to get them to honor my cancellation. With other subscription services on Apple (like many the TV streaming subscriptions) cancelling is a couple of standard clicks and you're done. No questions asked. I've cancelled and re-subscribed to thing like HBO multiple times because of it, but I will never be resubscribing to the NYT again. I don't want 90 different ways to cancel 90 different subscriptions from 90 different stores for 90 different apps on my phone, so yeah I do appreciate having one place to do it, and I wish it were harder for developers to skirt the App Store infrastructure to push their own consumer-hostile options.
    - DevKoala 6y ago
      But I am a customer too. For example, a couple months ago an, ad got my mom to install an app without her consent. She said she could not escape the page until she clicked okay, and she wasn’t aware the app had installed at all. I noticed because I started receiving charges for a subscription to the app services. A simple chat with Apple support granted me a reimbursement. As a customer, Apple treats me well. I understand where tons of developers are coming from, but as a customer I haven’t had a better experience.
  - orangecat 6y ago
    I just find it shortsighted; you're getting immediate convenience at the expense of longer term innovation and freedom. As I keep saying, if Microsoft had the power in 1990 that people want Apple to have today, the web wouldn't exist because Mosaic and Netscape would have been banned.
    - DevKoala 6y ago
      I’d prefer it if Microsoft, Google, Samsung, and other device makers released products that were on par with Apple’s. We are in this situation because Apple release better products than the competition. As a costumer, I want better products.
- kemiller 6y ago
  Sigh... I’ll ignore the subtle dig and respond to this straight. I don’t want my daily driver phone that I rely on to do my real hacking to be a science experiment. I want it to be a tool that always works, and I want it to be somebody else’s job to ensure that. No one is perfect at this, not even Apple, but they are the best at it in 2020 and the App Store lock down is part of that. If Android didn’t exist, I might feel that a different balance would be optimal, but it does, and it’s thriving. I’ve developed for the App Store and while it’s a pain in the ass, I actually appreciate that There are standards that must be met and I can’t be undercut by a competitor who is willing to take shortcuts.
jpambrun 6y ago
Allowing other stores doesn't mean you have to use them. You could still have your curated experience on the Apple store. Why do you want to impose your views on others?
- katbyte 6y ago
  Because my parents or none tech friends would use them and then come to me when their phones fucked
- sosborn 6y ago
  You don't have to use Apple. You could still have your non-curated experience with Android. Why do you want to impose your view on others?
  - jpambrun 6y ago
    That's dishonest. The situation is identical on Android. Yes. You can "technically" sideload apps, but there is so many hoops to go through that you really can't distribute your application this way.
    - sidibe 6y ago
      > there is so many hoops to go through that you really can't distribute your application this way One hoop. Turn on one setting, from there it's just clicking to download an apk and approving the dialog box. The real reason it's hard to distribute your application outside of Play store is discovery.
      - jpambrun 6y ago
        There is friction with updates as well. But we don't have to argue since even a giant such as Epic didn't manage to do it with the fortnight franchise..
- abc-xyz 6y ago
  Why are you, tech-savvy users, forcing Apple to allow third-party app stores/installations, which would no doubt lead to malware like we see on Windows, Macs, and Android? I and my software friends/colleagues might be capable of avoiding this malware (assuming you don’t consider Zoom and such to be malware), but my family and everyone else I know are not. I suspect 70+% of the user base could easily be tricked into installing malware that would spam them with sex notifications, hijack their search engine, etc.

No... many people actually appreciate the walled garden as consumers.

eertami 6y ago

Sure, but it's of course surprising such people would be present on HN.

DevKoala 6y ago
Why? As a developer it sounds like a nightmare, but as a costumer, I like it. It makes for a great experience.
- stefano 6y ago
  Because it's as far as you can go from being a "Hacker".
  - AlexandrB 6y ago
    As a signifier of technological anti-establishment thinking I think that label is pretty meaningless at this point. Most of the "Hackers" of my generation grew up to either vacuum up user data without their consent, micro-target advertising (including political propaganda), or fund those that do the above two things.
  - ilikehurdles 6y ago
    People here are consumers too. To give my anecdata: I used to subscribe to the NYT and made the mistake of not subscribing using Apple's subscriptions mechanism. When I wanted to cancel for a while, I had to go through a whole spiel with their sales rep to get them to honor my cancellation. With other subscription services on Apple (like many the TV streaming subscriptions) cancelling is a couple of standard clicks and you're done. No questions asked. I've cancelled and re-subscribed to thing like HBO multiple times because of it, but I will never be resubscribing to the NYT again. I don't want 90 different ways to cancel 90 different subscriptions from 90 different stores for 90 different apps on my phone, so yeah I do appreciate having one place to do it, and I wish it were harder for developers to skirt the App Store infrastructure to push their own consumer-hostile options.
  - DevKoala 6y ago
    But I am a customer too. For example, a couple months ago an, ad got my mom to install an app without her consent. She said she could not escape the page until she clicked okay, and she wasn’t aware the app had installed at all. I noticed because I started receiving charges for a subscription to the app services. A simple chat with Apple support granted me a reimbursement. As a customer, Apple treats me well. I understand where tons of developers are coming from, but as a customer I haven’t had a better experience.
- orangecat 6y ago
  I just find it shortsighted; you're getting immediate convenience at the expense of longer term innovation and freedom. As I keep saying, if Microsoft had the power in 1990 that people want Apple to have today, the web wouldn't exist because Mosaic and Netscape would have been banned.
  - DevKoala 6y ago
    I’d prefer it if Microsoft, Google, Samsung, and other device makers released products that were on par with Apple’s. We are in this situation because Apple release better products than the competition. As a costumer, I want better products.
kemiller 6y ago
Sigh... I’ll ignore the subtle dig and respond to this straight. I don’t want my daily driver phone that I rely on to do my real hacking to be a science experiment. I want it to be a tool that always works, and I want it to be somebody else’s job to ensure that. No one is perfect at this, not even Apple, but they are the best at it in 2020 and the App Store lock down is part of that. If Android didn’t exist, I might feel that a different balance would be optimal, but it does, and it’s thriving. I’ve developed for the App Store and while it’s a pain in the ass, I actually appreciate that There are standards that must be met and I can’t be undercut by a competitor who is willing to take shortcuts.

jpambrun 6y ago

Allowing other stores doesn't mean you have to use them. You could still have your curated experience on the Apple store. Why do you want to impose your views on others?

katbyte 6y ago
Because my parents or none tech friends would use them and then come to me when their phones fucked
sosborn 6y ago
You don't have to use Apple. You could still have your non-curated experience with Android. Why do you want to impose your view on others?
- jpambrun 6y ago
  That's dishonest. The situation is identical on Android. Yes. You can "technically" sideload apps, but there is so many hoops to go through that you really can't distribute your application this way.
  - sidibe 6y ago
    > there is so many hoops to go through that you really can't distribute your application this way One hoop. Turn on one setting, from there it's just clicking to download an apk and approving the dialog box. The real reason it's hard to distribute your application outside of Play store is discovery.
    - jpambrun 6y ago
      There is friction with updates as well. But we don't have to argue since even a giant such as Epic didn't manage to do it with the fortnight franchise..
abc-xyz 6y ago
Why are you, tech-savvy users, forcing Apple to allow third-party app stores/installations, which would no doubt lead to malware like we see on Windows, Macs, and Android? I and my software friends/colleagues might be capable of avoiding this malware (assuming you don’t consider Zoom and such to be malware), but my family and everyone else I know are not. I suspect 70+% of the user base could easily be tricked into installing malware that would spam them with sex notifications, hijack their search engine, etc.