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I can't speak for any other countries, but from the American perspective, civics education in this country is really lacking. If citizens don't understand the b

by Whut 6y ago

I can't speak for any other countries, but from the American perspective, civics education in this country is really lacking. If citizens don't understand the basics of the American government works, it's very easy for people like Trump to lie to them. Media literacy classes would also be helpful. A lot of citizens are not capable of separating fact from fiction.

mellavora 6y ago
Second this. Posts prior to yours have stated other causes (lack of leadership, economic issues). But a strong and widely shared/held understanding of civics would have provided a framework for discussing these issues and potential resolutions. civics to include both the what (how government works) and the why (power arising from the people, leviation so life is worth living, government to secure rights (which includes economic provisions such as a social safety net to ensure delivery of those rights), ...), leading to the responsibility/expectations on all of society, from the individual on up. We today (as a culture) are so advanced in terms of STEM that we think we know it all, and are completely blind to how much we don't know. The founding fathers had much greater wisdom/understanding on how politics and society work and how to make them work, we've lost that. Finally, ALL of the above is completely neutral to "conservative" or "progressive" politics. The founding fathers debated these just as strongly as we do today, on all aspects of every point I raised above.
mdorazio 6y ago
Civics is definitely lacking, but I feel like the bigger issue is that information sources in general have become highly biased and prone to misinformation (especially if you consider social media an information source). And at the same time we aren't teaching kids to seek truth, question what they hear, and think critically. In fact, a lot of times it seems like the opposite is being taught - "believe me because I'm in a position of authority".
snake_plissken 6y ago
I'm not sure why you're getting down voted; this is an accurate comment on the condition of things, especially about the media literacy. I'll add one more point that for some people, it's a badge of honor to actively remain uninformed on certain topics. Not sure what you can do about that.
dx87 6y ago
Yep, the government is very slow to change, by design. If more people understood that, they'd see that politicians on any side who promise major overhauls to how the country runs are lying, it's simply not possible with our current setup. Whether the government becomes more liberal or conservative, it'll take a while. At the same time, it's important to not get complacent, because the further the government goes down a path you don't like, the harder it gets to turn it around.
- AftHurrahWinch 6y ago
  I enthusiastically support a candidate who advocates for dramatic change, and my fellow volunteers and I understand that they almost certainly won't happen. Our experience has been that anything that results from our work will be compromised, and we want to aim high so that we can compromise somewhere in the middle. It seems like you're implying that people who argue for "x" are ignorant of the fact that they'll get a fraction of x. Anecdotally, people who argue for "x" are aware of the fact that they'll get a fraction... so they ask for very high values of x.
mistermann 6y ago
> I can't speak for any other countries, but from the American perspective, civics education in this country is really lacking. If citizens don't understand the basics of the American government works, it's very easy for people like Trump to lie to them. Even worse I'd say is the lack of psychology and neuroscience education. If one doesn't understand the fundamentals of how the human mind works, it's very easy to fall victim to lies from any source, including their own mind. > A lot of citizens are not capable of separating fact from fiction. Including people that perceive that they do have the ability. Everyone suffers from it to varying degrees (the specifics of which are not known, despite the patterns that appear to be there), but it is near impossible to perceive in oneself for many interesting reasons, including some possibly significant ones which have been observed but have not yet gotten much attention in the scientific community (who does not know what it does not know, something which may only be perceivable in certain states of mind). My conspiracy theory is that it is not accidental that we don't teach these things in school outside of specialized programs, because it is a vector that can be used to distort beliefs across all demographics, including self-perceived informed rationalists, and the effects of this can be observed on a daily basis.

by Whut 6y ago

mellavora 6y ago

Second this. Posts prior to yours have stated other causes (lack of leadership, economic issues). But a strong and widely shared/held understanding of civics would have provided a framework for discussing these issues and potential resolutions. civics to include both the what (how government works) and the why (power arising from the people, leviation so life is worth living, government to secure rights (which includes economic provisions such as a social safety net to ensure delivery of those rights), ...), leading to the responsibility/expectations on all of society, from the individual on up. We today (as a culture) are so advanced in terms of STEM that we think we know it all, and are completely blind to how much we don't know. The founding fathers had much greater wisdom/understanding on how politics and society work and how to make them work, we've lost that. Finally, ALL of the above is completely neutral to "conservative" or "progressive" politics. The founding fathers debated these just as strongly as we do today, on all aspects of every point I raised above.

mdorazio 6y ago

Civics is definitely lacking, but I feel like the bigger issue is that information sources in general have become highly biased and prone to misinformation (especially if you consider social media an information source). And at the same time we aren't teaching kids to seek truth, question what they hear, and think critically. In fact, a lot of times it seems like the opposite is being taught - "believe me because I'm in a position of authority".

snake_plissken 6y ago

I'm not sure why you're getting down voted; this is an accurate comment on the condition of things, especially about the media literacy. I'll add one more point that for some people, it's a badge of honor to actively remain uninformed on certain topics. Not sure what you can do about that.

dx87 6y ago

Yep, the government is very slow to change, by design. If more people understood that, they'd see that politicians on any side who promise major overhauls to how the country runs are lying, it's simply not possible with our current setup. Whether the government becomes more liberal or conservative, it'll take a while. At the same time, it's important to not get complacent, because the further the government goes down a path you don't like, the harder it gets to turn it around.

AftHurrahWinch 6y ago
I enthusiastically support a candidate who advocates for dramatic change, and my fellow volunteers and I understand that they almost certainly won't happen. Our experience has been that anything that results from our work will be compromised, and we want to aim high so that we can compromise somewhere in the middle. It seems like you're implying that people who argue for "x" are ignorant of the fact that they'll get a fraction of x. Anecdotally, people who argue for "x" are aware of the fact that they'll get a fraction... so they ask for very high values of x.

mistermann 6y ago

> I can't speak for any other countries, but from the American perspective, civics education in this country is really lacking. If citizens don't understand the basics of the American government works, it's very easy for people like Trump to lie to them. Even worse I'd say is the lack of psychology and neuroscience education. If one doesn't understand the fundamentals of how the human mind works, it's very easy to fall victim to lies from any source, including their own mind. > A lot of citizens are not capable of separating fact from fiction. Including people that perceive that they do have the ability. Everyone suffers from it to varying degrees (the specifics of which are not known, despite the patterns that appear to be there), but it is near impossible to perceive in oneself for many interesting reasons, including some possibly significant ones which have been observed but have not yet gotten much attention in the scientific community (who does not know what it does not know, something which may only be perceivable in certain states of mind). My conspiracy theory is that it is not accidental that we don't teach these things in school outside of specialized programs, because it is a vector that can be used to distort beliefs across all demographics, including self-perceived informed rationalists, and the effects of this can be observed on a daily basis.