10 ms·

For a few dollars more it is possible to put a FPGA with perhaps a neural accelerator on it. It may tremendously simplify some of the DSP stack. More importantl

For a few dollars more it is possible to put a FPGA with perhaps a neural accelerator on it. It may tremendously simplify some of the DSP stack. More importantly, there should be a full-proof app or UI to allow the user to tune the hearing aid appropriately (or coupled with a training course for audiologists in the targeted regions to do so).

KSteffensen 6y ago
Hearing aids are tremendously constrained with regards to power and mechanics. There is no way you will be able to get an FPGA in a hearing aid. An FPGA runnning complex DSP algorithms will: 1. Get hot. I don't want a +60C FPGA in my ear. 2. Eat up the battery. The batteries are small and fiddly to replace for an 85 year old with bad eyes and arthritis in the fingers. They should last for at least a week before needing replacing. No they are generally not rechargeable in the device. That would require a connector, which takes up precious volume. Wireless recharging requires a coil with the same problem. 3. Take up way too much PCB real estate. They are just too big to fit in your ear. Sure, you can run a wire to a box outside the ear, but that messes with the fashion statement. Most hearing aid users want small and discrete, so the world isn't reminded they have a disability. Besides, why would you put an FPGA in there? Hearing aids already feature some of the most high-grade low-power DSP ASICs available, custom made for that companys DSP algorithms.
- boogies 6y ago
  > a connector, which take up precious volume. Wireless recharging requires a coil with the same problem. Couldn’t a “connector” just be a tiny gold contact to meet another in a charging cradle/case like a smart watch or wireless earbuds? Would that be too big?
  - etskinner 6y ago
    More than just a connector, it also needs a charging circuit, which would also take up space.
    - boogies 6y ago
      Does that charging circuit need to be inside the hearing aid, and not in the charging cradle/case/dock thing?
      - ygjb 6y ago
        Generally, yes. The circuitry for power does more than charge the battery, it provides power regulation to prevent over discharge and reduce the likelihood of short circuits (among other things)
- loa_in_ 6y ago
  About the precious volume and heat - the technology still seems very unimpressive given we have wireless earbuds in stores. Mounting something behind the ear doesn't seem very extravagant these days and vendors only profit from this forced conservative approach because it smothers any potential competition that thinks it has to be this way.
  - DanBC 6y ago
    Yes. Plenty of people prefer behind the ear devices because they are either rechargable, or brightly coloured. Young people in particular benefit from being able to chose an aid that's brightly coloured, and you see some YP modify their aids with skins or stickers. Here's the colour range for one modern aid: https://www.fmhearingsystems.co.uk/PDF/FocusColours.jpg https://www.fmhearingsystems.co.uk/PDF/FocusColours.jpg Rechargable: https://www.phonak.com/uk/en/about-us/rechargeable-technology.html https://www.phonak.com/uk/en/about-us/rechargeable-technolog...
    - mdw 6y ago
      Having a brightly coloured hearing aid as an adult doesn’t look professional. Are these marketed towards younger people?
      - dhosek 6y ago
        As an adult, I want a brightly colored hearing aid. I don't care about hiding my disability—in fact I'd rather it be difficult for others to ignore—and I want it to be easy to find if my kids knock one out of my ears which happens less now that they're six but still happens.
      - libraryofbabel 6y ago
        Why not? People wear brightly colored jewelry or “statement” eyewear in a professional context all the time. Are you saying that it’s “professional” to hide your disability if you have hearing loss? If so, then I strongly disagree. It’s a personal choice.
- csunbird 6y ago
  is it possible to use the users phone for those calculations ? Think about a dumb hearing aid, with a microphone and bluetooth connection, which is able to connect to any compatible phone and phone does the processing.
  - ampdepolymerase 6y ago
    Realtime audio is tricky without hardware acceleration.
    - Someone 6y ago
      A recent smartphone has enough hardware for that, I would think, and if it hasn’t, but the idea made sense, it would be added. If the hardware can power a GPU and a million-pixel display, it can power quite a beefy DSP, too. I would worry about the latency of a round-trip over Bluetooth. Google search tells me it’s, optimistically, 100ms single-trip, so 200ms round trip (https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/07/fix-sound-delay-bluetooth-headphones/ https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/07/fix-sound-delay-bluetoo...)
      - TheRealSteel 6y ago
        Can anyone who knows about Bluetooth comment on why I can ping google in 50ms (wirelessly, even), but a Bluetooth round trip over a few centimetres takes 2 - 3X that?
        callalex 6y ago
        Please don’t think of me as an expert, because the sum of my knowledge comes from browsing Wikipedia articles. But the summary of the issue is that Bluetooth gets all its energy efficiency and robustness by constantly scanning the spectrum it is to live in, and hopping around extremely fast to different slices of channels, essentially taking advantage of the tiny “gaps” in other signaling protocols that share the same free spectrum. In other words it operates on sloppy seconds/scraps like a vulture, which means it’s timing is very loose and cannot provide any guarantees. But it’s very low power as a result because it almost never has to shout over anyone else.
chrisweekly 6y ago
full-proof -> fool-proof NOT being pedantic, just trying to be helpful / educational (esp given the large % of non-native English speakers on HN)
- ampdepolymerase 6y ago
  Sorry the auto correct changed the spelling. I meant fool-proof. I am a native speaker.

KSteffensen 6y ago

Hearing aids are tremendously constrained with regards to power and mechanics. There is no way you will be able to get an FPGA in a hearing aid. An FPGA runnning complex DSP algorithms will: 1. Get hot. I don't want a +60C FPGA in my ear. 2. Eat up the battery. The batteries are small and fiddly to replace for an 85 year old with bad eyes and arthritis in the fingers. They should last for at least a week before needing replacing. No they are generally not rechargeable in the device. That would require a connector, which takes up precious volume. Wireless recharging requires a coil with the same problem. 3. Take up way too much PCB real estate. They are just too big to fit in your ear. Sure, you can run a wire to a box outside the ear, but that messes with the fashion statement. Most hearing aid users want small and discrete, so the world isn't reminded they have a disability. Besides, why would you put an FPGA in there? Hearing aids already feature some of the most high-grade low-power DSP ASICs available, custom made for that companys DSP algorithms.

boogies 6y ago
> a connector, which take up precious volume. Wireless recharging requires a coil with the same problem. Couldn’t a “connector” just be a tiny gold contact to meet another in a charging cradle/case like a smart watch or wireless earbuds? Would that be too big?
- etskinner 6y ago
  More than just a connector, it also needs a charging circuit, which would also take up space.
  - boogies 6y ago
    Does that charging circuit need to be inside the hearing aid, and not in the charging cradle/case/dock thing?
    - ygjb 6y ago
      Generally, yes. The circuitry for power does more than charge the battery, it provides power regulation to prevent over discharge and reduce the likelihood of short circuits (among other things)
loa_in_ 6y ago
About the precious volume and heat - the technology still seems very unimpressive given we have wireless earbuds in stores. Mounting something behind the ear doesn't seem very extravagant these days and vendors only profit from this forced conservative approach because it smothers any potential competition that thinks it has to be this way.
- DanBC 6y ago
  Yes. Plenty of people prefer behind the ear devices because they are either rechargable, or brightly coloured. Young people in particular benefit from being able to chose an aid that's brightly coloured, and you see some YP modify their aids with skins or stickers. Here's the colour range for one modern aid: https://www.fmhearingsystems.co.uk/PDF/FocusColours.jpg https://www.fmhearingsystems.co.uk/PDF/FocusColours.jpg Rechargable: https://www.phonak.com/uk/en/about-us/rechargeable-technology.html https://www.phonak.com/uk/en/about-us/rechargeable-technolog...
  - mdw 6y ago
    Having a brightly coloured hearing aid as an adult doesn’t look professional. Are these marketed towards younger people?
    - dhosek 6y ago
      As an adult, I want a brightly colored hearing aid. I don't care about hiding my disability—in fact I'd rather it be difficult for others to ignore—and I want it to be easy to find if my kids knock one out of my ears which happens less now that they're six but still happens.
    - libraryofbabel 6y ago
      Why not? People wear brightly colored jewelry or “statement” eyewear in a professional context all the time. Are you saying that it’s “professional” to hide your disability if you have hearing loss? If so, then I strongly disagree. It’s a personal choice.
csunbird 6y ago
is it possible to use the users phone for those calculations ? Think about a dumb hearing aid, with a microphone and bluetooth connection, which is able to connect to any compatible phone and phone does the processing.
- ampdepolymerase 6y ago
  Realtime audio is tricky without hardware acceleration.
  - Someone 6y ago
    A recent smartphone has enough hardware for that, I would think, and if it hasn’t, but the idea made sense, it would be added. If the hardware can power a GPU and a million-pixel display, it can power quite a beefy DSP, too. I would worry about the latency of a round-trip over Bluetooth. Google search tells me it’s, optimistically, 100ms single-trip, so 200ms round trip (https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/07/fix-sound-delay-bluetooth-headphones/ https://www.headphonesty.com/2020/07/fix-sound-delay-bluetoo...)
    - TheRealSteel 6y ago
      Can anyone who knows about Bluetooth comment on why I can ping google in 50ms (wirelessly, even), but a Bluetooth round trip over a few centimetres takes 2 - 3X that?
      - callalex 6y ago
        Please don’t think of me as an expert, because the sum of my knowledge comes from browsing Wikipedia articles. But the summary of the issue is that Bluetooth gets all its energy efficiency and robustness by constantly scanning the spectrum it is to live in, and hopping around extremely fast to different slices of channels, essentially taking advantage of the tiny “gaps” in other signaling protocols that share the same free spectrum. In other words it operates on sloppy seconds/scraps like a vulture, which means it’s timing is very loose and cannot provide any guarantees. But it’s very low power as a result because it almost never has to shout over anyone else.

chrisweekly 6y ago

full-proof -> fool-proof NOT being pedantic, just trying to be helpful / educational (esp given the large % of non-native English speakers on HN)

ampdepolymerase 6y ago
Sorry the auto correct changed the spelling. I meant fool-proof. I am a native speaker.