10 ms·

Hearing aids (nor cochlear implants, for that matter) do not "restore hearing", except for light hearing loss. They are only like crutches (not even wheelchair)

by rini17 6y ago

Hearing aids (nor cochlear implants, for that matter) do not "restore hearing", except for light hearing loss. They are only like crutches (not even wheelchair). For example, to follow conversations or phone/skype with multiple people is very exhausting even with fancy device, because in most cases the "bandwidth" to the brain just isn't available. That said, the hearing aids vendor lock-in is really atrocious and can use a disruption. They don't like users configuring the aids themselves, you are expected to make appointments with audiologist - in fact several of them because every hearing loss is different and it's hard to exactly measure, so usually the aids won't fit on first or second try. The algorithms are strictly proprietary - when there's 40dB difference between responses to different frequencies such as I have, usual equalizer won't do. To enable bluetooth the rule is to buy expensive add-on streamer.

ampdepolymerase 6y ago
For a few dollars more it is possible to put a FPGA with perhaps a neural accelerator on it. It may tremendously simplify some of the DSP stack. More importantly, there should be a full-proof app or UI to allow the user to tune the hearing aid appropriately (or coupled with a training course for audiologists in the targeted regions to do so).
- KSteffensen 6y ago
  Hearing aids are tremendously constrained with regards to power and mechanics. There is no way you will be able to get an FPGA in a hearing aid. An FPGA runnning complex DSP algorithms will: 1. Get hot. I don't want a +60C FPGA in my ear. 2. Eat up the battery. The batteries are small and fiddly to replace for an 85 year old with bad eyes and arthritis in the fingers. They should last for at least a week before needing replacing. No they are generally not rechargeable in the device. That would require a connector, which takes up precious volume. Wireless recharging requires a coil with the same problem. 3. Take up way too much PCB real estate. They are just too big to fit in your ear. Sure, you can run a wire to a box outside the ear, but that messes with the fashion statement. Most hearing aid users want small and discrete, so the world isn't reminded they have a disability. Besides, why would you put an FPGA in there? Hearing aids already feature some of the most high-grade low-power DSP ASICs available, custom made for that companys DSP algorithms.
  - boogies 6y ago
    > a connector, which take up precious volume. Wireless recharging requires a coil with the same problem. Couldn’t a “connector” just be a tiny gold contact to meet another in a charging cradle/case like a smart watch or wireless earbuds? Would that be too big?
    - etskinner 6y ago
      More than just a connector, it also needs a charging circuit, which would also take up space.
      - boogies 6y ago
        Does that charging circuit need to be inside the hearing aid, and not in the charging cradle/case/dock thing?
        ygjb 6y ago
        Generally, yes. The circuitry for power does more than charge the battery, it provides power regulation to prevent over discharge and reduce the likelihood of short circuits (among other things)
  - loa_in_ 6y ago
    About the precious volume and heat - the technology still seems very unimpressive given we have wireless earbuds in stores. Mounting something behind the ear doesn't seem very extravagant these days and vendors only profit from this forced conservative approach because it smothers any potential competition that thinks it has to be this way.
    - DanBC 6y ago
      Yes. Plenty of people prefer behind the ear devices because they are either rechargable, or brightly coloured. Young people in particular benefit from being able to chose an aid that's brightly coloured, and you see some YP modify their aids with skins or stickers. Here's the colour range for one modern aid: https://www.fmhearingsystems.co.uk/PDF/FocusColours.jpg https://www.fmhearingsystems.co.uk/PDF/FocusColours.jpg Rechargable: https://www.phonak.com/uk/en/about-us/rechargeable-technology.html https://www.phonak.com/uk/en/about-us/rechargeable-technolog...
- chrisweekly 6y ago
  full-proof -> fool-proof NOT being pedantic, just trying to be helpful / educational (esp given the large % of non-native English speakers on HN)
  - ampdepolymerase 6y ago
    Sorry the auto correct changed the spelling. I meant fool-proof. I am a native speaker.
tootie 6y ago
Eargo lets you calibrate yourself, but the devices themselves are still fairly expensive.
SeasonalEnnui 6y ago
Multiple-decades of hearing aid wearing here. I agree with most of that. I ended up buying the programmer for my aids to do small tweaks (not the prescription/audiogram, just the program configuration where you can edit the level of DSP in various situations). I would say that this latest generation of hearing aids (Phonak Marvel) is the first generation where I've felt like they've got it right. Direct bluetooth connection that just works, and with a very wide range of volume adjustment (older models that used add-on streamer would not go loud enough). People receiving my voice over bluetooth, using the hearing aid's onboard microphones, report good sound quality. Magic.
- otoburb 6y ago
  And the Phonak Marvel's retail price is north of $1,000 USD. Can some of the cost to the individual be defrayed through medical insurance in the US?
  - snegu 6y ago
    My insurance covers hearing aids, but it definitely varies.
    - dhosek 6y ago
      I've never had insurance cover hearing aids. It's criminal that something so essential isn't covered.
  - bladegash 6y ago
    Some medical insurance plans provide coverage. I previously had a plan that covered the cost up to a certain amount per hearing aid, but only like once every couple of years. So if you were like me, and only needed one hearing aid, they would cover $800 for one ear or $1,600 for two. But I couldn’t, say, get one for $1,600. Now I have a plan with a different employer that doesn’t cover them at all.
- tobtoh 6y ago
  I'm about to trial a replacement for my current HA (about 5 years old) for the Phonak Paradise (the just released successor to the Marvel). The bluetooth connectivity has been a big reason why I want to upgrade - the work from home situation this year with constant phone calls and Zoom meeting requiring headsets has been a constant annoyance. I use an Airpod in my right ear and leave one HA in my left for those situations - but its fiddly and annoying to keep switching things in and out. The new IOS14 feature where I can tailor the Airpod audio response to my hearing frequency loss is simply amazing! However, being able to connect/stream audio directly to my HA will be even better. They are seriously pricey though - cheapest model is Aus$2700 (US$2000) and the top line model is Aus$8400 (US$5900). However, given I feel I got made redundant from a previous job five years ago due to my hearing loss (1), I'll basically spend 'whatever' to ensure I can hear as easily as possible. (1) In that job, I was wondering why as the years went on, I felt like I was struggling to pickup new concepts or get a handle on projects as fast as I used to. I seriously felt like I was getting stupider. After I got my hearing aids, I realised how much speech I was missing - I was heavily relying on lip reading and also using the context of conversation to fill in the gaps of words I couldn't hear. Which is passable in general conversation - but when managing new projects or new technology concepts, you don't have the experience to generate the context that fills in the gaps. It was literally life-changing when I got my HA. Go an get your hearing tested if you ever feel you are even remotely struggling with your hearing!
madspindel 6y ago
It's because it's a medical device. The OTC Hearing Aid Act will change that so Bose (and I would guess Samsung and Apple in the future) can sell hearing aids directly to consumers. Bluetooth 5.2 LE Audio will solve the vendor lock-in. So the future looks bright for us with hearing loss. Edit: And with iOS 14 you can use AirPods Pro as hearings aids by adding an audiogram to the Apple Health app. Works really well.
- inetsee 6y ago
  There is a hearing aid app called Fennex that seems to be very highly rated. It works with any IPhone running iOS 11 or later (thus less expensive IPhones) and works with any Bluetooth earbuds, not necessarily the AirPods Pro (thus less expensive earbuds). I have never owned an IPhone, but this app seriously tempts me to buy one.
  - WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
    iPhone SE locked down to a specific carrier used in A-rate (best quality) goes for $50 on ebay. iOS14 is guaranteed to work on it for at least one year. Edit: I am not an Apple guy but needed some cheap AF development hardware.
  - coupdejarnac 6y ago
    I developed a hearing aid app for iOS in the past. You might not be happy with the delay that wireless earphones introduce.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Someone 6y ago
  Apple already sells a hearing aid that they can’t legally call ‘hearing aid’. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209082 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209082: “With Live Listen, your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch can act like a microphone that sends sound to your AirPods or Powerbeats Pro. Live Listen can help you hear a conversation in a noisy area or even hear someone speaking across the room.” It even supports hearing aids (a few? Some? Many? The most popular? I wouldn’t know). See https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210386 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210386
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
wefarrell 6y ago
Cochlear implants do not "restore hearing" but they do allow people who are completely deaf to sense sound well enough to understand speech. That's a huge change in a deaf person's life.
- canada_dry 6y ago
  > to sense sound well enough My understanding is that it's like a low-sighted person being able to see contrasts and outlines of things. It's enough to differentiate things, but significantly less than the detail of regular ability.
  - jonathanlb 6y ago
    That could be for Deaf people. I'm a cochlear implant user, having been hearing impaired most of my life. Because I know what things sound like, I have an advantage over Deaf users of CIs. Thus, for me, hearing is like the difference between a RAW image or the same image in JPEG with heavy artifacting, or like seeing something in 60fps- you know what you're sensing, but it's just off a little, but still much better than sensing nothing or very little at all.
  - noisem4ker 6y ago
    There are several simulators on the Internet, so you can hear what it sounds like.
- whjohnson37 6y ago
  Cochlear implant user here - they completely changed the arc of my life. I lost my hearing when I was 12 and was deaf for 15 years, so I do have some sense of what normal hearing is like. Sound quality is pretty good in the speech-level frequencies but degrades when you move away from that range (music sounds worse than I remember). That being said, I score in the 90%+ percentile for speech recognition and am able to talk on the phone with no problems. There's no telling where I would be without my cochlear implants, but they truly have provided me a second chance at life. I got married, went to a great graduate program, and have a high paying, fulfilling job - all products of being able to communicate effectively. Communication underpins fulfillment and self-worth. Any product that helps those in need communicate better is a net positive.
darkmoney007 6y ago
DIY Hearing Aids is on the rise because of this. It's more accessible now than before.
mgh2 6y ago
I work on ecommerce, so I often see trendy products being marketed: usually sourced from China and hyped to sell at 20-50x its price. I am trying to see how different this device is compared to sound amplifiers marketed as 'miracle hearing aids' found in any ecommerce site. The last thing HN wants is to fall victim to an advertorial disguised as a scientific discovery. Note: I worked for a company that wrote 'scientific' articles like this as landing pages.
- TaylorAlexander 6y ago
  Yep. I have a pair of fully functional Bluetooth earbuds that cost $8 including shipping. It is already possible to make cheap amplifying earbuds. The problems are largely regulatory. I’m glad someone said the US passed or will pass a law that allows earbud manufacturers to sell their devices as hearing aids. I found a broken/crushed AirPod on the ground and my goodness they pack serious engineering into those tiny things.
Waterluvian 6y ago
This all sounds similar to my experience with CPAP machines.
etse 6y ago
> That said, the hearing aids vendor lock-in is really atrocious and can use a disruption Agreed about the disruption in this space. > They don't like users configuring the aids themselves I get the feeling most users don't want to configure the aids themselves, and even if they did, wouldn't feel comfortable doing it or don't have the ability or audiology knowledge needed. Later on you mention how helping with hearing loss is not quick or straightforward, which seems to support that the default of encouraging sessions with an expert is right approach, at least to start.
m0zg 6y ago
I think skype is exhausting not for this reason but because algorithms cut speakers out when someone else starts speaking for echo and feedback suppression. I wish there was true full-duplex mode that assumes everyone is wearing headphones, so there aren't any reverberation concerns.
- brokenmachine 6y ago
  +1, definitely.
jbarham 6y ago
> Hearing aids (nor cochlear implants, for that matter) do not "restore hearing", except for light hearing loss This claim is totally false for cochlear implants. I am a cochlear implant recipient and before the implant I had essentially no hearing in my right ear ("profoundly deaf"). With the implant in my right ear my hearing has been restored to 90%+ of normal hearing.
- gugagore 6y ago
  What does 90% mean, and out of curiosity can you distinguish two notes one semitone apart on e.g. a piano?
  - jbarham 6y ago
    After my cochlear implant operation I volunteered to participate in an in-depth research study to collect data on post-op outcomes for cochlear implant recipients (coincidentally at the Eye & Ear hospital in Melbourne where the multi-channel cochlear implant was invented and first implanted in 1978 by Graeme Clark). I did a whole raft of audiology tests and for the speech comprehension tests in particular I scored 90%+ compared to people with normal hearing. (They're tough tests too, trying to pick out a sentence from a lot of background noise which is a worst-case scenario for hard of hearing people.) I was told that my outcome was better than average, but I was a younger than average adult recipient given than I was in my early 40's, compared to most (in Australia at least) who are 60+. And yes I can now distinguish all notes on a piano.
    - gugagore 6y ago
      Thanks for sharing. This is getting into territory that non-musically trained hearing people would probably have difficultly, but can you distinguish between a C major chord and a C minor chord? And do you have any other feelings about it, like one sounding sad or happy? I don't think any of this is particularly relevant to understanding spoken language, but I'm just curious about your outcome. I'd be surprised if a majority of current CI users could distinguish e.g. middle C from C# (not identify the note, but just perceive a difference between them), but I don't know that many CI users.

by rini17 6y ago

ampdepolymerase 6y ago

For a few dollars more it is possible to put a FPGA with perhaps a neural accelerator on it. It may tremendously simplify some of the DSP stack. More importantly, there should be a full-proof app or UI to allow the user to tune the hearing aid appropriately (or coupled with a training course for audiologists in the targeted regions to do so).

KSteffensen 6y ago
Hearing aids are tremendously constrained with regards to power and mechanics. There is no way you will be able to get an FPGA in a hearing aid. An FPGA runnning complex DSP algorithms will: 1. Get hot. I don't want a +60C FPGA in my ear. 2. Eat up the battery. The batteries are small and fiddly to replace for an 85 year old with bad eyes and arthritis in the fingers. They should last for at least a week before needing replacing. No they are generally not rechargeable in the device. That would require a connector, which takes up precious volume. Wireless recharging requires a coil with the same problem. 3. Take up way too much PCB real estate. They are just too big to fit in your ear. Sure, you can run a wire to a box outside the ear, but that messes with the fashion statement. Most hearing aid users want small and discrete, so the world isn't reminded they have a disability. Besides, why would you put an FPGA in there? Hearing aids already feature some of the most high-grade low-power DSP ASICs available, custom made for that companys DSP algorithms.
- boogies 6y ago
  > a connector, which take up precious volume. Wireless recharging requires a coil with the same problem. Couldn’t a “connector” just be a tiny gold contact to meet another in a charging cradle/case like a smart watch or wireless earbuds? Would that be too big?
  - etskinner 6y ago
    More than just a connector, it also needs a charging circuit, which would also take up space.
    - boogies 6y ago
      Does that charging circuit need to be inside the hearing aid, and not in the charging cradle/case/dock thing?
      - ygjb 6y ago
        Generally, yes. The circuitry for power does more than charge the battery, it provides power regulation to prevent over discharge and reduce the likelihood of short circuits (among other things)
- loa_in_ 6y ago
  About the precious volume and heat - the technology still seems very unimpressive given we have wireless earbuds in stores. Mounting something behind the ear doesn't seem very extravagant these days and vendors only profit from this forced conservative approach because it smothers any potential competition that thinks it has to be this way.
  - DanBC 6y ago
    Yes. Plenty of people prefer behind the ear devices because they are either rechargable, or brightly coloured. Young people in particular benefit from being able to chose an aid that's brightly coloured, and you see some YP modify their aids with skins or stickers. Here's the colour range for one modern aid: https://www.fmhearingsystems.co.uk/PDF/FocusColours.jpg https://www.fmhearingsystems.co.uk/PDF/FocusColours.jpg Rechargable: https://www.phonak.com/uk/en/about-us/rechargeable-technology.html https://www.phonak.com/uk/en/about-us/rechargeable-technolog...
chrisweekly 6y ago
full-proof -> fool-proof NOT being pedantic, just trying to be helpful / educational (esp given the large % of non-native English speakers on HN)
- ampdepolymerase 6y ago
  Sorry the auto correct changed the spelling. I meant fool-proof. I am a native speaker.

tootie 6y ago

Eargo lets you calibrate yourself, but the devices themselves are still fairly expensive.

SeasonalEnnui 6y ago

Multiple-decades of hearing aid wearing here. I agree with most of that. I ended up buying the programmer for my aids to do small tweaks (not the prescription/audiogram, just the program configuration where you can edit the level of DSP in various situations). I would say that this latest generation of hearing aids (Phonak Marvel) is the first generation where I've felt like they've got it right. Direct bluetooth connection that just works, and with a very wide range of volume adjustment (older models that used add-on streamer would not go loud enough). People receiving my voice over bluetooth, using the hearing aid's onboard microphones, report good sound quality. Magic.

otoburb 6y ago
And the Phonak Marvel's retail price is north of $1,000 USD. Can some of the cost to the individual be defrayed through medical insurance in the US?
- snegu 6y ago
  My insurance covers hearing aids, but it definitely varies.
  - dhosek 6y ago
    I've never had insurance cover hearing aids. It's criminal that something so essential isn't covered.
- bladegash 6y ago
  Some medical insurance plans provide coverage. I previously had a plan that covered the cost up to a certain amount per hearing aid, but only like once every couple of years. So if you were like me, and only needed one hearing aid, they would cover $800 for one ear or $1,600 for two. But I couldn’t, say, get one for $1,600. Now I have a plan with a different employer that doesn’t cover them at all.
tobtoh 6y ago
I'm about to trial a replacement for my current HA (about 5 years old) for the Phonak Paradise (the just released successor to the Marvel). The bluetooth connectivity has been a big reason why I want to upgrade - the work from home situation this year with constant phone calls and Zoom meeting requiring headsets has been a constant annoyance. I use an Airpod in my right ear and leave one HA in my left for those situations - but its fiddly and annoying to keep switching things in and out. The new IOS14 feature where I can tailor the Airpod audio response to my hearing frequency loss is simply amazing! However, being able to connect/stream audio directly to my HA will be even better. They are seriously pricey though - cheapest model is Aus$2700 (US$2000) and the top line model is Aus$8400 (US$5900). However, given I feel I got made redundant from a previous job five years ago due to my hearing loss (1), I'll basically spend 'whatever' to ensure I can hear as easily as possible. (1) In that job, I was wondering why as the years went on, I felt like I was struggling to pickup new concepts or get a handle on projects as fast as I used to. I seriously felt like I was getting stupider. After I got my hearing aids, I realised how much speech I was missing - I was heavily relying on lip reading and also using the context of conversation to fill in the gaps of words I couldn't hear. Which is passable in general conversation - but when managing new projects or new technology concepts, you don't have the experience to generate the context that fills in the gaps. It was literally life-changing when I got my HA. Go an get your hearing tested if you ever feel you are even remotely struggling with your hearing!

madspindel 6y ago

It's because it's a medical device. The OTC Hearing Aid Act will change that so Bose (and I would guess Samsung and Apple in the future) can sell hearing aids directly to consumers. Bluetooth 5.2 LE Audio will solve the vendor lock-in. So the future looks bright for us with hearing loss. Edit: And with iOS 14 you can use AirPods Pro as hearings aids by adding an audiogram to the Apple Health app. Works really well.

inetsee 6y ago
There is a hearing aid app called Fennex that seems to be very highly rated. It works with any IPhone running iOS 11 or later (thus less expensive IPhones) and works with any Bluetooth earbuds, not necessarily the AirPods Pro (thus less expensive earbuds). I have never owned an IPhone, but this app seriously tempts me to buy one.
- WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
  iPhone SE locked down to a specific carrier used in A-rate (best quality) goes for $50 on ebay. iOS14 is guaranteed to work on it for at least one year. Edit: I am not an Apple guy but needed some cheap AF development hardware.
- coupdejarnac 6y ago
  I developed a hearing aid app for iOS in the past. You might not be happy with the delay that wireless earphones introduce.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Someone 6y ago
Apple already sells a hearing aid that they can’t legally call ‘hearing aid’. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209082 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209082: “With Live Listen, your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch can act like a microphone that sends sound to your AirPods or Powerbeats Pro. Live Listen can help you hear a conversation in a noisy area or even hear someone speaking across the room.” It even supports hearing aids (a few? Some? Many? The most popular? I wouldn’t know). See https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210386 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210386

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

wefarrell 6y ago

Cochlear implants do not "restore hearing" but they do allow people who are completely deaf to sense sound well enough to understand speech. That's a huge change in a deaf person's life.

canada_dry 6y ago
> to sense sound well enough My understanding is that it's like a low-sighted person being able to see contrasts and outlines of things. It's enough to differentiate things, but significantly less than the detail of regular ability.
- jonathanlb 6y ago
  That could be for Deaf people. I'm a cochlear implant user, having been hearing impaired most of my life. Because I know what things sound like, I have an advantage over Deaf users of CIs. Thus, for me, hearing is like the difference between a RAW image or the same image in JPEG with heavy artifacting, or like seeing something in 60fps- you know what you're sensing, but it's just off a little, but still much better than sensing nothing or very little at all.
- noisem4ker 6y ago
  There are several simulators on the Internet, so you can hear what it sounds like.
whjohnson37 6y ago
Cochlear implant user here - they completely changed the arc of my life. I lost my hearing when I was 12 and was deaf for 15 years, so I do have some sense of what normal hearing is like. Sound quality is pretty good in the speech-level frequencies but degrades when you move away from that range (music sounds worse than I remember). That being said, I score in the 90%+ percentile for speech recognition and am able to talk on the phone with no problems. There's no telling where I would be without my cochlear implants, but they truly have provided me a second chance at life. I got married, went to a great graduate program, and have a high paying, fulfilling job - all products of being able to communicate effectively. Communication underpins fulfillment and self-worth. Any product that helps those in need communicate better is a net positive.

darkmoney007 6y ago

DIY Hearing Aids is on the rise because of this. It's more accessible now than before.

mgh2 6y ago

I work on ecommerce, so I often see trendy products being marketed: usually sourced from China and hyped to sell at 20-50x its price. I am trying to see how different this device is compared to sound amplifiers marketed as 'miracle hearing aids' found in any ecommerce site. The last thing HN wants is to fall victim to an advertorial disguised as a scientific discovery. Note: I worked for a company that wrote 'scientific' articles like this as landing pages.

TaylorAlexander 6y ago
Yep. I have a pair of fully functional Bluetooth earbuds that cost $8 including shipping. It is already possible to make cheap amplifying earbuds. The problems are largely regulatory. I’m glad someone said the US passed or will pass a law that allows earbud manufacturers to sell their devices as hearing aids. I found a broken/crushed AirPod on the ground and my goodness they pack serious engineering into those tiny things.

Waterluvian 6y ago

This all sounds similar to my experience with CPAP machines.

etse 6y ago

> That said, the hearing aids vendor lock-in is really atrocious and can use a disruption Agreed about the disruption in this space. > They don't like users configuring the aids themselves I get the feeling most users don't want to configure the aids themselves, and even if they did, wouldn't feel comfortable doing it or don't have the ability or audiology knowledge needed. Later on you mention how helping with hearing loss is not quick or straightforward, which seems to support that the default of encouraging sessions with an expert is right approach, at least to start.

m0zg 6y ago

I think skype is exhausting not for this reason but because algorithms cut speakers out when someone else starts speaking for echo and feedback suppression. I wish there was true full-duplex mode that assumes everyone is wearing headphones, so there aren't any reverberation concerns.

brokenmachine 6y ago
+1, definitely.

jbarham 6y ago

> Hearing aids (nor cochlear implants, for that matter) do not "restore hearing", except for light hearing loss This claim is totally false for cochlear implants. I am a cochlear implant recipient and before the implant I had essentially no hearing in my right ear ("profoundly deaf"). With the implant in my right ear my hearing has been restored to 90%+ of normal hearing.

gugagore 6y ago
What does 90% mean, and out of curiosity can you distinguish two notes one semitone apart on e.g. a piano?
- jbarham 6y ago
  After my cochlear implant operation I volunteered to participate in an in-depth research study to collect data on post-op outcomes for cochlear implant recipients (coincidentally at the Eye & Ear hospital in Melbourne where the multi-channel cochlear implant was invented and first implanted in 1978 by Graeme Clark). I did a whole raft of audiology tests and for the speech comprehension tests in particular I scored 90%+ compared to people with normal hearing. (They're tough tests too, trying to pick out a sentence from a lot of background noise which is a worst-case scenario for hard of hearing people.) I was told that my outcome was better than average, but I was a younger than average adult recipient given than I was in my early 40's, compared to most (in Australia at least) who are 60+. And yes I can now distinguish all notes on a piano.
  - gugagore 6y ago
    Thanks for sharing. This is getting into territory that non-musically trained hearing people would probably have difficultly, but can you distinguish between a C major chord and a C minor chord? And do you have any other feelings about it, like one sounding sad or happy? I don't think any of this is particularly relevant to understanding spoken language, but I'm just curious about your outcome. I'd be surprised if a majority of current CI users could distinguish e.g. middle C from C# (not identify the note, but just perceive a difference between them), but I don't know that many CI users.