4 ms·

Yeah, the way people like JK Rowling have been hounded for not agreeing on every point with some people is very depressing to see, considering that she has been

onion2k 6y ago
Yeah, the way people like JK Rowling have been hounded for not agreeing on every point with some people is very depressing to see, considering that she has been quite supportive in the past of the very groups that are hounding her. She has changed a lot since writing Harry Potter. It's obvious that she no longer believes in supporting marginalised groups or telling people that it's OK to be who you want to be. Her recent work is extremely political and designed to further marginalise people who are already marginalised - she's literally just had a book published that's about a serial killer who dresses as a woman to approach and attack other women, which isn't even slightly veiled as an attack on the trans community. If that's how she thinks now then she has every right to be like that, but everyone else has the right to point out she's being an asshole. As always, there's an XKCD for this - https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/
- shiba_developer 6y ago
  Oh yeah, because trans people are living saints and can never ever be murderers.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    The number of trans murderers is incredibly tiny - can you name even one? While trying to assert that being trans makes someone more likely to be a murderer is a slur.
    - ThomPete 6y ago
      Yeah don't think there are many of those. But here is one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_Schmidt#:~:text=Beate%20Schmidt%20(born%20Wolfgang%20Schmidt,Schmidt%20is%20a%20trans%20woman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_Schmidt#:~:text=Beate%20.... Not sure what the point is though. The discussion I tried to start was about all the normal cis-gender if you like kids who are brought up in a well meaning home, getting the right education and the right jobs but being extremely intellectually fragile. Not sure why trans suddenly needs to get included into this.
      - DanBC 6y ago
        Your argument seems to be: "I can say what I like, and when the people I'm insulting turn round and argue back they're fragile. But me, I'm not in anyway fragile when I'm trying to shut them down for criticising me."
        ThomPete 6y ago
        No my argument has a context, the context here is mostly Facebook employees and their likes at twitter, spotify etc which are mostly well educated young white people.
- ptsneves 6y ago
  Damn you see the plot point of a serial killer dressing as a woman as attack on trans? I often wonder if I am crazy, because that would never cross my mind. Why would I associate a serial killer with trans? Maybe a woman serial killer that kills women is also an attack on women? I think this kind of reaction actually harms trans more than the story. So out of this world that people will think that trans or gay or blue bi are not good in their mind and thus not a fellow person.
  - onion2k 6y ago
    Damn you see the plot point of a serial killer dressing as a woman as attack on trans? In itself, no. When it comes from someone who has a history of claiming trans people are dangerous and shouldn't be alone with women, yes. Context is important.
    - ptsneves 6y ago
      Could you provide a link to the context? I am skeptical but even so I upvoted you. I am sorry that your opinions lead to downvotes.
      - DanBC 6y ago
        JKR write under the pen name Robert Galbraith. Is it just a coincidence that the pen name she picked was the name of a gay conversion therapist? https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/man-who-fried-gay-people-s-brains-a7119181.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Galbraith_Heath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Galbraith_Heath
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > When it comes from someone who has a history of claiming trans people are dangerous and shouldn't be alone with women, yes. More specifically, when it comes from someone saying trans-women shouldn't be allowed it women's restrooms for the precise reason that it would be an opportunity for men who want to attack women to pretend to be women so that they could do so freely, a fictional piece with a central element that is a man who pretends to be woman so that he can attack women can very easily be seen as a dramatization of the exact argument the author has publicly made against trans rights.
lalaland1125 6y ago
Do you think it would be "illiberal" to hound someone for believing that white people are inherently superior to black people? To keep things in context, JK Rowling has stated that she believes that biologically male people are inherently a danger to biologically female people. This is fundamentally the paradox of tolerance: is it intolerant to be hostile to intolerant beliefs? JK Rowling's essay explaining her stances on trans people: > ... I spent much of Saturday in a very dark place inside my head, as memories of a serious sexual assault I suffered in my twenties recurred on a loop. That assault happened at a time and in a space where I was vulnerable, and a man capitalised on an opportunity. I couldn’t shut out those memories and I was finding it hard to contain my anger and disappointment about the way I believe my government is playing fast and loose with womens and girls’ safety. > When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman – and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones – then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside. https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-...
- mathgladiator 6y ago
  I feel JK Rowling was echoing a common sentiment in many women: “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.” - Margaret Atwood
  - DanBC 6y ago
    Atwood is not anti-trans and has criticised JKR for her bigoted beliefs.
- actuator 6y ago
  I never said if I agree or disagree with her, but seeing her experience with assault in the past. Can you see why she might feel like that? I sympathise with her and the groups she referred to as well. We all are a product of our experiences and hardships, at the end of the day that shapes our opinions. We can disagree with her but do we really need to resort to these methods.

onion2k 6y ago

Yeah, the way people like JK Rowling have been hounded for not agreeing on every point with some people is very depressing to see, considering that she has been quite supportive in the past of the very groups that are hounding her. She has changed a lot since writing Harry Potter. It's obvious that she no longer believes in supporting marginalised groups or telling people that it's OK to be who you want to be. Her recent work is extremely political and designed to further marginalise people who are already marginalised - she's literally just had a book published that's about a serial killer who dresses as a woman to approach and attack other women, which isn't even slightly veiled as an attack on the trans community. If that's how she thinks now then she has every right to be like that, but everyone else has the right to point out she's being an asshole. As always, there's an XKCD for this - https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/

shiba_developer 6y ago
Oh yeah, because trans people are living saints and can never ever be murderers.
- pjc50 6y ago
  The number of trans murderers is incredibly tiny - can you name even one? While trying to assert that being trans makes someone more likely to be a murderer is a slur.
  - ThomPete 6y ago
    Yeah don't think there are many of those. But here is one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_Schmidt#:~:text=Beate%20Schmidt%20(born%20Wolfgang%20Schmidt,Schmidt%20is%20a%20trans%20woman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beate_Schmidt#:~:text=Beate%20.... Not sure what the point is though. The discussion I tried to start was about all the normal cis-gender if you like kids who are brought up in a well meaning home, getting the right education and the right jobs but being extremely intellectually fragile. Not sure why trans suddenly needs to get included into this.
    - DanBC 6y ago
      Your argument seems to be: "I can say what I like, and when the people I'm insulting turn round and argue back they're fragile. But me, I'm not in anyway fragile when I'm trying to shut them down for criticising me."
      - ThomPete 6y ago
        No my argument has a context, the context here is mostly Facebook employees and their likes at twitter, spotify etc which are mostly well educated young white people.
ptsneves 6y ago
Damn you see the plot point of a serial killer dressing as a woman as attack on trans? I often wonder if I am crazy, because that would never cross my mind. Why would I associate a serial killer with trans? Maybe a woman serial killer that kills women is also an attack on women? I think this kind of reaction actually harms trans more than the story. So out of this world that people will think that trans or gay or blue bi are not good in their mind and thus not a fellow person.
- onion2k 6y ago
  Damn you see the plot point of a serial killer dressing as a woman as attack on trans? In itself, no. When it comes from someone who has a history of claiming trans people are dangerous and shouldn't be alone with women, yes. Context is important.
  - ptsneves 6y ago
    Could you provide a link to the context? I am skeptical but even so I upvoted you. I am sorry that your opinions lead to downvotes.
    - DanBC 6y ago
      JKR write under the pen name Robert Galbraith. Is it just a coincidence that the pen name she picked was the name of a gay conversion therapist? https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/man-who-fried-gay-people-s-brains-a7119181.html https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Galbraith_Heath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Galbraith_Heath
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > When it comes from someone who has a history of claiming trans people are dangerous and shouldn't be alone with women, yes. More specifically, when it comes from someone saying trans-women shouldn't be allowed it women's restrooms for the precise reason that it would be an opportunity for men who want to attack women to pretend to be women so that they could do so freely, a fictional piece with a central element that is a man who pretends to be woman so that he can attack women can very easily be seen as a dramatization of the exact argument the author has publicly made against trans rights.

lalaland1125 6y ago

Do you think it would be "illiberal" to hound someone for believing that white people are inherently superior to black people? To keep things in context, JK Rowling has stated that she believes that biologically male people are inherently a danger to biologically female people. This is fundamentally the paradox of tolerance: is it intolerant to be hostile to intolerant beliefs? JK Rowling's essay explaining her stances on trans people: > ... I spent much of Saturday in a very dark place inside my head, as memories of a serious sexual assault I suffered in my twenties recurred on a loop. That assault happened at a time and in a space where I was vulnerable, and a man capitalised on an opportunity. I couldn’t shut out those memories and I was finding it hard to contain my anger and disappointment about the way I believe my government is playing fast and loose with womens and girls’ safety. > When you throw open the doors of bathrooms and changing rooms to any man who believes or feels he’s a woman – and, as I’ve said, gender confirmation certificates may now be granted without any need for surgery or hormones – then you open the door to any and all men who wish to come inside. https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/ https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-...

mathgladiator 6y ago
I feel JK Rowling was echoing a common sentiment in many women: “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.” - Margaret Atwood
- DanBC 6y ago
  Atwood is not anti-trans and has criticised JKR for her bigoted beliefs.
actuator 6y ago
I never said if I agree or disagree with her, but seeing her experience with assault in the past. Can you see why she might feel like that? I sympathise with her and the groups she referred to as well. We all are a product of our experiences and hardships, at the end of the day that shapes our opinions. We can disagree with her but do we really need to resort to these methods.