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For sustainable farming, livestock plays a very crucial role. This is particularly true for organic and natural farming. https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/ag

For sustainable farming, livestock plays a very crucial role. This is particularly true for organic and natural farming. https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/agriculture/organic-livestock-farming-a-revolution-in-the-making-71530 https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/agriculture/organic-live... So looking at a single metric (methane emissions) doesn't do this topic justice. Also, live stock grazing (if done properly) can also be a method of regreening environments. https://news.mongabay.com/2020/08/though-forests-burn-agroforestry-advances-as-trees-retake-farmland-globally/ https://news.mongabay.com/2020/08/though-forests-burn-agrofo...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
cbernini 6y ago
You're talking about manure usage here, not meat consumption. You don't need cattle for regenerative agriculture. Compost can do just fine in this case. Also if you want to boost nitrogen on the soil you can do by using FAA (a KNF entry) based on fish, instead. Anyways, the second link you sent says that they have controlled grazing to prevent the cattle from destroying new growth. As the text says: plants can do it all. Plantation can't. And never will.
- pkphilip 6y ago
  Overgrazing can and does cause problems but controlled grazing can actually fight desertification and has been used: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-livestock-grazing-stop-desertification/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-livestock-gra... The organic and natural farming methods used in parts of Asia - especially India, utilizes livestock for much more than just manure. You should look up Zero Budget Natural Farming (ZBNF) by Subhash Palekar. Quoting from this site: https://www.civilsdaily.com/news/zero-budget-natural-farming-zbnf/ https://www.civilsdaily.com/news/zero-budget-natural-farming... The “four wheels” of ZBNF are ‘Jiwamrita’, ‘Bijamrita’, ‘Mulching’ and ‘Waaphasa’. - Jiwamrita is a fermented mixture of cow dung and urine (of desi (Indian) breeds), jaggery, pulses flour, water and soil from the farm bund. - This isn’t a fertiliser, but just a source of some 500 crore micro-organisms that can convert all the necessary “non-available” nutrients into “available” form. - Bijamrita is a mix of desi cow dung and urine, water, bund soil and lime that is used as a seed treatment solution prior to sowing. - Mulching, or covering the plants with a layer of dried straw or fallen leaves, is meant to conserve soil moisture and keep the temperature around the roots at 25-32 degrees Celsius, which allows the microorganisms to do their job. - Waaphasa, or providing water to maintain the required moisture-air balance, also achieves the same objective.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    From your article: > with managed "strategic" herds of grazing vegetarians This is “introduce a few grazing animals”, not “this will support the world’s cattle”.
    - pkphilip 6y ago
      All sorts of livestock is used - not just cattle. Goat manure, for instance, is very good in some circumstances and is quite expensive. As with everything, all things have to be done in moderation. A certain acreage of land can only support so many plants, animals and humans. I was only countering the narrative that livestock=evil because it damages the environment based on one single parameter - methane emissions.. which is also something that is being addressed by different types of feeds etc.
danimal88 6y ago
The regenerative ag conversation is really overhyped. Its a way to justified the continuation of an industry plagued by environmental issues and ethical issues. The numbers don't work out in terms of how much land would be needed to effectively use regenerative ag at anything close to current meat consumption and there is still no agreement on whether it actually even works, mostly just meat industry advocates sitting behind flimsy science with a friendly sounding non profit sitting in front of the meat groups. The idea that we need to slaughter cattle to regenerate land is pretty flawed if nothing more because if this was actually effective, we could simply reintroduce bison and other animals that are natural to a given local and not need to constantly pump meat out of that same land. Meat production will slowly decline as consumers have more ethical, environmentally friendly, cost effective, healthy, and savory enough alternatives. Impossible and Beyond are the mvp and this is only going to accelerate. Especially if we are eventually start to price GHG.
- pkphilip 6y ago
  We have 100s of farmers that we personally work with - some of them with less than 2 hectares of land, who are using livestock to help in their agriculture. Without livestock they will be paying through their nose for biofertilizer and other inputs. They sell male calves and older cattle and also eggs, chicken etc. But not much else. In all likelihood these farmers probably do far less damage to the environment and also "consume" far less plastic packaging and produce far less non-recyclable waste than the average person living in an apartment in a city. Also, the overall pollution per person in the household of a farmer is likely a lot less as well.
- Gabriel_Martin 6y ago
  If we're really looking to "leave no trace" on the land as much as we can, that could definitely include a roaming head of 100m bison or so IMO. The way they interact with the carbon cycle could be a net positive.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

cbernini 6y ago

You're talking about manure usage here, not meat consumption. You don't need cattle for regenerative agriculture. Compost can do just fine in this case. Also if you want to boost nitrogen on the soil you can do by using FAA (a KNF entry) based on fish, instead. Anyways, the second link you sent says that they have controlled grazing to prevent the cattle from destroying new growth. As the text says: plants can do it all. Plantation can't. And never will.

pkphilip 6y ago
Overgrazing can and does cause problems but controlled grazing can actually fight desertification and has been used: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-livestock-grazing-stop-desertification/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-livestock-gra... The organic and natural farming methods used in parts of Asia - especially India, utilizes livestock for much more than just manure. You should look up Zero Budget Natural Farming (ZBNF) by Subhash Palekar. Quoting from this site: https://www.civilsdaily.com/news/zero-budget-natural-farming-zbnf/ https://www.civilsdaily.com/news/zero-budget-natural-farming... The “four wheels” of ZBNF are ‘Jiwamrita’, ‘Bijamrita’, ‘Mulching’ and ‘Waaphasa’. - Jiwamrita is a fermented mixture of cow dung and urine (of desi (Indian) breeds), jaggery, pulses flour, water and soil from the farm bund. - This isn’t a fertiliser, but just a source of some 500 crore micro-organisms that can convert all the necessary “non-available” nutrients into “available” form. - Bijamrita is a mix of desi cow dung and urine, water, bund soil and lime that is used as a seed treatment solution prior to sowing. - Mulching, or covering the plants with a layer of dried straw or fallen leaves, is meant to conserve soil moisture and keep the temperature around the roots at 25-32 degrees Celsius, which allows the microorganisms to do their job. - Waaphasa, or providing water to maintain the required moisture-air balance, also achieves the same objective.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  From your article: > with managed "strategic" herds of grazing vegetarians This is “introduce a few grazing animals”, not “this will support the world’s cattle”.
  - pkphilip 6y ago
    All sorts of livestock is used - not just cattle. Goat manure, for instance, is very good in some circumstances and is quite expensive. As with everything, all things have to be done in moderation. A certain acreage of land can only support so many plants, animals and humans. I was only countering the narrative that livestock=evil because it damages the environment based on one single parameter - methane emissions.. which is also something that is being addressed by different types of feeds etc.

danimal88 6y ago

The regenerative ag conversation is really overhyped. Its a way to justified the continuation of an industry plagued by environmental issues and ethical issues. The numbers don't work out in terms of how much land would be needed to effectively use regenerative ag at anything close to current meat consumption and there is still no agreement on whether it actually even works, mostly just meat industry advocates sitting behind flimsy science with a friendly sounding non profit sitting in front of the meat groups. The idea that we need to slaughter cattle to regenerate land is pretty flawed if nothing more because if this was actually effective, we could simply reintroduce bison and other animals that are natural to a given local and not need to constantly pump meat out of that same land. Meat production will slowly decline as consumers have more ethical, environmentally friendly, cost effective, healthy, and savory enough alternatives. Impossible and Beyond are the mvp and this is only going to accelerate. Especially if we are eventually start to price GHG.

pkphilip 6y ago
We have 100s of farmers that we personally work with - some of them with less than 2 hectares of land, who are using livestock to help in their agriculture. Without livestock they will be paying through their nose for biofertilizer and other inputs. They sell male calves and older cattle and also eggs, chicken etc. But not much else. In all likelihood these farmers probably do far less damage to the environment and also "consume" far less plastic packaging and produce far less non-recyclable waste than the average person living in an apartment in a city. Also, the overall pollution per person in the household of a farmer is likely a lot less as well.
Gabriel_Martin 6y ago
If we're really looking to "leave no trace" on the land as much as we can, that could definitely include a roaming head of 100m bison or so IMO. The way they interact with the carbon cycle could be a net positive.