6 ms·

Finish high school, but spend every waking minute working on your passion for software development. Skip college, you can always go back. Anything you learn th

Finish high school, but spend every waking minute working on your passion for software development. Skip college, you can always go back. Anything you learn there is already 10 years out of date, and anything "new" you learn will be useless by the time you graduate. Seriously. If you MUST go to college, DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT get a CS degree. Go for finance, or liberal arts, even bio or chem, or some course of study where the instructors have a clue and have actually done something in that field. I can't tell you how many BS/CS and MS/CS grads I interviewed that couldn't code their way out of a paper bag because they spent their college years writing compilers or some other such nonsense. Get into a hot startup and listen and learn. The first six months will provide you with more experience than you'd get in a PhD program at any university (short of MIT or Stanford). Cheers!

paulbaumgart 15y ago
"compilers or some other such nonsense" Seriously? I'd spend time refuting that notion, but Steve Yegge already did it quite eloquently: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007/06/rich-programmer-food.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007/06/rich-programmer-food...
- mixmastamyk 15y ago
  Longwinded but worthwhile read.
- ecommando 15y ago
  Excellent suggestion. That was a great post by Steve, and I can see his points. I especially love the answer to the C++ question ;-) However, I ask you, please revisit this post in 20 year, when you've run the gamut of jobs, startups, and made a ton of money, and then ask yourself, "Did I ever really use any of the knowledge I gained in my compiler design and application courses? You already know the answer will be "no". I'm not saying it's not important for some people. For some, it's truly foundational and life changing. For others, it's a complete waste of time, and I'm not saying that to one-up or make myself seem super-hero-like. It's just the way it is. How am I qualified to make such statements? I have coded assembly by hand since the 6502 and Z80 processors came out, since before there were compilers, and I'd happily list projects I've done in assembler if there's interest. Cheers R
  - kunjaan 15y ago
    >since before there were compilers The first compiler was written in 1952. The first complete and usable one was introduced in 1957 for FORTRAN.
alex1 15y ago
Take this advice with a grain of salt. I wouldn't take it at all. If you choose to major in CS (I would encourage you to), try your best go to a reputable school. I would say the most reputable ones are most of the engineering programs at the top 20 schools (MIT, Stanford, CMU, Berkeley, etc). I don't know much about lower or middle tier schools but at the top tier schools, nothing you learn will be 10 years out of date.
artmageddon 15y ago
>I can't tell you how many BS/CS and MS/CS grads I interviewed that couldn't code their way out of a paper bag While I do understand what you're saying, it's been my experience that a lot of companies won't even look at a person who doesn't have a CS degree. My suggestion would be to work on the kickass project idea while working in tandem on a CS degree. If anything, the OP will be able to blaze through it and could potentially do a double major.
cachemoney 15y ago
This advice is potentially terrible for many/most people. > Skip college, you can always go back. It's much harder to get into and succeed in college later in life. You'll also be a bad fit for the college social scene, which is where many people make lifetime friends and connections. > If you MUST go to college, DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT get a CS degree. Go for finance, or liberal arts, even bio or chem, or some course of study where the instructors have a clue and have actually done something in that field. I think this reveals bias from the poster. My opinion is that you should at least start college. If you shouldn't be there, you can drop out. Find a mentor that seems to be a good fit for you. It could be a prof, a local startup founder, whatever. Make plans ahead of time (e.g. contact profs ahead of time and/or choose the university based on faculty) to secure that mentorship.
andrewstuart 15y ago
Computer science theory is actually important and relevant. What you learn in university is only a start point and you should expand your knowledge and curiosity into every nook and cranny of software development that you find interesting, including compilers and many other things that might appear at first "not relevant". You'll find that software technologies interrelate in many unexpected ways and the more you know about a wide range of things, the better technologist you will be. Getting a computer science degree will be an important asset to you as you move through your career. You might not spend your entire career running a startup, you might work for someone else at some time, and your formal qualifications will play an important role in getting a job and qualifying you to move into new positions within an organisation. Your formal qualifications will also be important to potential investors in your startup. Contrary to the advice above, a good time to get a degree is at the very beginning of your career when everyone else is doing it and you need minimal money to live. It isn't actually easy to "go back to university any time" - the older you get the greater your obligations and commitments, that harder it gets. Formal qualifications do not make you a great programmer, but they are an important part of a balanced career. Don't treat them like a "piece of paper", treat them like an opportunity to be shown potential pathways of learning, then do the hard work to explore each pathway in great depth.
kunjaan 15y ago
Are you a troll? Because that is the most ridiculous piece of garbage of an advice. The guy is in high school. You are telling him to skip college because * "Anything you learn there is already 10 years out of date, and anything "new" you learn will be useless by the time you graduate" You have got to be kidding me. What you learn in school is not the idea itself but a method of thinking, method of critiquing and the method of learning. One of the most effective ways to learn to solve problems is to solve problems that already have solutions and to learn from those that came before you. Yes you may learn "stuffs from the 70s" but you are learning them for a reason. For example, just because NoSQL is in vogue right now doesn't mean that relation theory should be discarded. There is a value in going to school, being surrounded by a learning atmosphere, reassessing yourself every day and learning more about yourself. * DO NOT get a CS degree. Go for finance, or liberal arts, even bio or chem, or some course of study where the instructors have a clue and have actually done something in that field. Where did you got to school? Because almost all my CS professors not only had a "clue" but some even revolutionized the fields in CS. Seriously, you get to meet people who started fields, who wrote books, who first thought of the problems in CS schools. Computer Science is still in adolescence. You will still meet legends. * how many BS/CS and MS/CS grads I interviewed that couldn't code their way out of a paper bag because they spent their college years writing compilers or some other such nonsense. So? Just because you interviewed idiots doesn't mean everyone who got a BS/MS is one. Serious sampling bias there. I am sure YOU attract mediocre people. * Get into a hot startup and listen and learn. The first six months will provide you with more experience than you'd get in a PhD program at any university (short of MIT or Stanford). Wait. What? Do you really think 6 MONTHS of startup experience is a replacement for not BS not MS but a PhD in ANY university. Jesus Christ dude, how old are you? what is your educational background? What do you aspire to be?
- alex1 15y ago
  I agree with everything you said but can we please be a little more civil?
- throwawayy 15y ago
  I think I've tracked him down: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=483874&authType=name&authToken=0K2_&pvs=pp&trk=ppro_viewmore http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=483874&authType=... https://profiles.google.com/rwdryburgh/about https://profiles.google.com/rwdryburgh/about The guy seems to have a lot of experience, but not from education.
imechura 15y ago
Skip college, you can always go back. For anyone who is thinking of following this advise please do not. If you decide you don't want to go to a university then that may be the correct path of you. But, there is never an easier to to study than right after high school. By the time you decide "you can always go back." you might just have a 50 hour per week job, a house note and a toddler that are all way more deserving of your time than getting a degree. The first six months will provide you with more experience than you'd get in a PhD program at any university (short of MIT or Stanford). Are you serious? Really?

paulbaumgart 15y ago

"compilers or some other such nonsense" Seriously? I'd spend time refuting that notion, but Steve Yegge already did it quite eloquently: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007/06/rich-programmer-food.html http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007/06/rich-programmer-food...

mixmastamyk 15y ago
Longwinded but worthwhile read.
ecommando 15y ago
Excellent suggestion. That was a great post by Steve, and I can see his points. I especially love the answer to the C++ question ;-) However, I ask you, please revisit this post in 20 year, when you've run the gamut of jobs, startups, and made a ton of money, and then ask yourself, "Did I ever really use any of the knowledge I gained in my compiler design and application courses? You already know the answer will be "no". I'm not saying it's not important for some people. For some, it's truly foundational and life changing. For others, it's a complete waste of time, and I'm not saying that to one-up or make myself seem super-hero-like. It's just the way it is. How am I qualified to make such statements? I have coded assembly by hand since the 6502 and Z80 processors came out, since before there were compilers, and I'd happily list projects I've done in assembler if there's interest. Cheers R
- kunjaan 15y ago
  >since before there were compilers The first compiler was written in 1952. The first complete and usable one was introduced in 1957 for FORTRAN.

alex1 15y ago

Take this advice with a grain of salt. I wouldn't take it at all. If you choose to major in CS (I would encourage you to), try your best go to a reputable school. I would say the most reputable ones are most of the engineering programs at the top 20 schools (MIT, Stanford, CMU, Berkeley, etc). I don't know much about lower or middle tier schools but at the top tier schools, nothing you learn will be 10 years out of date.

artmageddon 15y ago

>I can't tell you how many BS/CS and MS/CS grads I interviewed that couldn't code their way out of a paper bag While I do understand what you're saying, it's been my experience that a lot of companies won't even look at a person who doesn't have a CS degree. My suggestion would be to work on the kickass project idea while working in tandem on a CS degree. If anything, the OP will be able to blaze through it and could potentially do a double major.

cachemoney 15y ago

This advice is potentially terrible for many/most people. > Skip college, you can always go back. It's much harder to get into and succeed in college later in life. You'll also be a bad fit for the college social scene, which is where many people make lifetime friends and connections. > If you MUST go to college, DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT get a CS degree. Go for finance, or liberal arts, even bio or chem, or some course of study where the instructors have a clue and have actually done something in that field. I think this reveals bias from the poster. My opinion is that you should at least start college. If you shouldn't be there, you can drop out. Find a mentor that seems to be a good fit for you. It could be a prof, a local startup founder, whatever. Make plans ahead of time (e.g. contact profs ahead of time and/or choose the university based on faculty) to secure that mentorship.

andrewstuart 15y ago

Computer science theory is actually important and relevant. What you learn in university is only a start point and you should expand your knowledge and curiosity into every nook and cranny of software development that you find interesting, including compilers and many other things that might appear at first "not relevant". You'll find that software technologies interrelate in many unexpected ways and the more you know about a wide range of things, the better technologist you will be. Getting a computer science degree will be an important asset to you as you move through your career. You might not spend your entire career running a startup, you might work for someone else at some time, and your formal qualifications will play an important role in getting a job and qualifying you to move into new positions within an organisation. Your formal qualifications will also be important to potential investors in your startup. Contrary to the advice above, a good time to get a degree is at the very beginning of your career when everyone else is doing it and you need minimal money to live. It isn't actually easy to "go back to university any time" - the older you get the greater your obligations and commitments, that harder it gets. Formal qualifications do not make you a great programmer, but they are an important part of a balanced career. Don't treat them like a "piece of paper", treat them like an opportunity to be shown potential pathways of learning, then do the hard work to explore each pathway in great depth.

kunjaan 15y ago

Are you a troll? Because that is the most ridiculous piece of garbage of an advice. The guy is in high school. You are telling him to skip college because * "Anything you learn there is already 10 years out of date, and anything "new" you learn will be useless by the time you graduate" You have got to be kidding me. What you learn in school is not the idea itself but a method of thinking, method of critiquing and the method of learning. One of the most effective ways to learn to solve problems is to solve problems that already have solutions and to learn from those that came before you. Yes you may learn "stuffs from the 70s" but you are learning them for a reason. For example, just because NoSQL is in vogue right now doesn't mean that relation theory should be discarded. There is a value in going to school, being surrounded by a learning atmosphere, reassessing yourself every day and learning more about yourself. * DO NOT get a CS degree. Go for finance, or liberal arts, even bio or chem, or some course of study where the instructors have a clue and have actually done something in that field. Where did you got to school? Because almost all my CS professors not only had a "clue" but some even revolutionized the fields in CS. Seriously, you get to meet people who started fields, who wrote books, who first thought of the problems in CS schools. Computer Science is still in adolescence. You will still meet legends. * how many BS/CS and MS/CS grads I interviewed that couldn't code their way out of a paper bag because they spent their college years writing compilers or some other such nonsense. So? Just because you interviewed idiots doesn't mean everyone who got a BS/MS is one. Serious sampling bias there. I am sure YOU attract mediocre people. * Get into a hot startup and listen and learn. The first six months will provide you with more experience than you'd get in a PhD program at any university (short of MIT or Stanford). Wait. What? Do you really think 6 MONTHS of startup experience is a replacement for not BS not MS but a PhD in ANY university. Jesus Christ dude, how old are you? what is your educational background? What do you aspire to be?

alex1 15y ago
I agree with everything you said but can we please be a little more civil?
throwawayy 15y ago
I think I've tracked him down: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=483874&authType=name&authToken=0K2_&pvs=pp&trk=ppro_viewmore http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=483874&authType=... https://profiles.google.com/rwdryburgh/about https://profiles.google.com/rwdryburgh/about The guy seems to have a lot of experience, but not from education.

imechura 15y ago

Skip college, you can always go back. For anyone who is thinking of following this advise please do not. If you decide you don't want to go to a university then that may be the correct path of you. But, there is never an easier to to study than right after high school. By the time you decide "you can always go back." you might just have a 50 hour per week job, a house note and a toddler that are all way more deserving of your time than getting a degree. The first six months will provide you with more experience than you'd get in a PhD program at any university (short of MIT or Stanford). Are you serious? Really?