4 ms·

It is not a moratorium on rent payments. Just on evictions.

by ilarum 6y ago

mcdirty 6y ago
I'm sure folks are going to pay their rents on time... Just sure of it /sic
- munk-a 6y ago
  When people are able to do the right thing they tend to - there isn't a need to be pessimistic about humanity in general.
axaxs 6y ago
serious question... what's the difference? If people can't pay, and can't get evicted, is it not equivalent?
- wmf 6y ago
  When you get evicted on Jan 1st you'll owe even more than you do now!
- bagacrap 6y ago
  how it affects your credit score?
  - munk-a 6y ago
    Probably terribly - but in the US your credit score isn't federally managed so they'd need to nationalize Equifax or try and force business practices to do anything about credit scores.
    - true_religion 6y ago
      I'm not sure why the fact someone can't pay rent, shouldn't factor into their credit score. Even with the moratorium, it means they are piling up debt in missed rent payments without income.
      - munk-a 6y ago
        Credit scores are a really terrible system, my score was absolute trash when I went to buy a condo since most of my transactions use debt cards and paying with cash - I avoid debt like the plague and thus I am considered to have a really poor credit score. When it comes to loan "worthiness", or whatever the measure is, lenders want to know if you're likely going to be able to repay the loan - exceptions happen and right now Covid is (hopefully) a gigantic exception that we'll eventually move beyond.
- ayyyolo 6y ago
  You're still on the hook for your lease etc. That's why they could actually kick you out for other reasons (ex: not paying electric).
- 542458 6y ago
  No, because if you don’t pay you can still be evicted the moment the moratorium is lifted. Landlords can still do everything in the process up to actually kicking somebody out. The moratorium also notably doesn’t apply to people who can pay, but just choose not to.
- slg 6y ago
  Debts are still accruing. Landlords will still have the ability to pursue payments in the future. This does nothing but restrict landlords from kicking people out of their homes.
  - munk-a 6y ago
    It might lower payment rate (if an eviction isn't coming those folks may put their money toward more immediate issues like healthcare/food). But it will also decrease overall revenue for landlords - someone who isn't able to pay their rent can't be evicted and theoretically replaced with someone who can... then again I'm not certain how many folks are moving apartments right now.
    - slg 6y ago
      >It might lower payment rate (if an eviction isn't coming those folks may put their money toward more immediate issues like healthcare/food). It is tough to feel bad that landlords might have to temporarily sacrifice their profitability so their tenants don't literally starve to death. Comments like this are just telling on themselves that they care more about the financial health of the home owner class than the literal health of the renter class. Once again, this doesn't change how much a tenant owes. It just removes the ability to kick a tenant out. Courts will work to resolve these financial disputes once we are over the pandemic.
      - munk-a 6y ago
        You are incorrect - I care deeply about the well being of those renters and I don't give a hoot about the large rental managers - those corporations can absorb the temporary slow down in revenue. I care about those tighter margin managers of property that will be out of an income if renters can't continue to pay rent. The economy is like a big giant circle of life, some parts are terrible, some parts can withstand a lot of business, but if momentum starts to die then we're all in trouble. I'm also not advocating for a full re-open I think that's more damaging in the long run, I'd support diverting money from some of the big government sinks (i.e. defense spending) to help social issues in the short term, Boeing and folks have enough of a war chest to withstand some short term losses.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
m0zg 6y ago
Why would I evict someone if they are paying their rent? I mean I suppose there are a few cases when that happens, but by and large non-payment is the primary reason for eviction. I'm glad I don't own any rental properties right now. I figure the bank would not be happy if I told them I'm not going to pay until I get paid, even if "debt is still accruing".
- munk-a 6y ago
  Yea a family member of mine manages properties and they don't have great margins to begin with - this moratorium might end up forcing a lot of small businesses to be folded into the large property management companies and those guys are pretty terrible.
Breefield 6y ago
Speaking from Oakland CA here where the eviction moratorium is one of the most intense in the country. I think most renters who opt not to pay during eviction moratoriums suspect that being brought to court for rent arrears is akin to squeezing blood from a stone. My lawyer advised me to negotiate rent to an amount my tenant can pay stating, "the only way you'll be able to collect is by a future collection action, and many times those types of judgments are worth about as much as the paper they're printed on." I say this all to try and drive the point home, a moratorium on evictions is akin to an implicit rent reduction or rent elimination.
- joshuamorton 6y ago
  To be fair, in many places (including the SFBA) you could get a rent reduction just by asking these last few months. My rent was knocked down significantly because we asked (and circumstances were reasonable), and I know of people on month to month leases who got reductions by threatening to move out.
  - Breefield 6y ago
    Anecdote time: My tenant said they were denied unemployment. They never tried to negotiate the rent. After 4 months of nonpayment when Oakland formalized my ability to offer them a "Covid19 rent reduction" which wouldn't affect their lease'd rent price on an ongoing basis I gave them a 20% reduction. 7 months later I still haven't received a dime. I finally decided to look them up on LinkedIn—turns out they used to be a property manager, something I'd overlooked during my background check. I think they just know how long the rope is right now, and how my hands are tied, so they're using the system to their advantage ¯\_(ツ)_/
    - brendoelfrendo 6y ago
      Or... They actually were denied unemployment and their prior employment has no bearing on their current situation except that maybe they understand the fine print a little better? And you going out of your way to make negative assumptions about your tennant is a great example of why people think landlords are jerks?

It is not a moratorium on rent payments. Just on evictions.

by ilarum 6y ago

It is not a moratorium on rent payments. Just on evictions.

mcdirty 6y ago

I'm sure folks are going to pay their rents on time... Just sure of it /sic

munk-a 6y ago
When people are able to do the right thing they tend to - there isn't a need to be pessimistic about humanity in general.

axaxs 6y ago

serious question... what's the difference? If people can't pay, and can't get evicted, is it not equivalent?

wmf 6y ago
When you get evicted on Jan 1st you'll owe even more than you do now!
bagacrap 6y ago
how it affects your credit score?
- munk-a 6y ago
  Probably terribly - but in the US your credit score isn't federally managed so they'd need to nationalize Equifax or try and force business practices to do anything about credit scores.
  - true_religion 6y ago
    I'm not sure why the fact someone can't pay rent, shouldn't factor into their credit score. Even with the moratorium, it means they are piling up debt in missed rent payments without income.
    - munk-a 6y ago
      Credit scores are a really terrible system, my score was absolute trash when I went to buy a condo since most of my transactions use debt cards and paying with cash - I avoid debt like the plague and thus I am considered to have a really poor credit score. When it comes to loan "worthiness", or whatever the measure is, lenders want to know if you're likely going to be able to repay the loan - exceptions happen and right now Covid is (hopefully) a gigantic exception that we'll eventually move beyond.
ayyyolo 6y ago
You're still on the hook for your lease etc. That's why they could actually kick you out for other reasons (ex: not paying electric).
542458 6y ago
No, because if you don’t pay you can still be evicted the moment the moratorium is lifted. Landlords can still do everything in the process up to actually kicking somebody out. The moratorium also notably doesn’t apply to people who can pay, but just choose not to.
slg 6y ago
Debts are still accruing. Landlords will still have the ability to pursue payments in the future. This does nothing but restrict landlords from kicking people out of their homes.
- munk-a 6y ago
  It might lower payment rate (if an eviction isn't coming those folks may put their money toward more immediate issues like healthcare/food). But it will also decrease overall revenue for landlords - someone who isn't able to pay their rent can't be evicted and theoretically replaced with someone who can... then again I'm not certain how many folks are moving apartments right now.
  - slg 6y ago
    >It might lower payment rate (if an eviction isn't coming those folks may put their money toward more immediate issues like healthcare/food). It is tough to feel bad that landlords might have to temporarily sacrifice their profitability so their tenants don't literally starve to death. Comments like this are just telling on themselves that they care more about the financial health of the home owner class than the literal health of the renter class. Once again, this doesn't change how much a tenant owes. It just removes the ability to kick a tenant out. Courts will work to resolve these financial disputes once we are over the pandemic.
    - munk-a 6y ago
      You are incorrect - I care deeply about the well being of those renters and I don't give a hoot about the large rental managers - those corporations can absorb the temporary slow down in revenue. I care about those tighter margin managers of property that will be out of an income if renters can't continue to pay rent. The economy is like a big giant circle of life, some parts are terrible, some parts can withstand a lot of business, but if momentum starts to die then we're all in trouble. I'm also not advocating for a full re-open I think that's more damaging in the long run, I'd support diverting money from some of the big government sinks (i.e. defense spending) to help social issues in the short term, Boeing and folks have enough of a war chest to withstand some short term losses.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

m0zg 6y ago

Why would I evict someone if they are paying their rent? I mean I suppose there are a few cases when that happens, but by and large non-payment is the primary reason for eviction. I'm glad I don't own any rental properties right now. I figure the bank would not be happy if I told them I'm not going to pay until I get paid, even if "debt is still accruing".

munk-a 6y ago
Yea a family member of mine manages properties and they don't have great margins to begin with - this moratorium might end up forcing a lot of small businesses to be folded into the large property management companies and those guys are pretty terrible.

Breefield 6y ago

Speaking from Oakland CA here where the eviction moratorium is one of the most intense in the country. I think most renters who opt not to pay during eviction moratoriums suspect that being brought to court for rent arrears is akin to squeezing blood from a stone. My lawyer advised me to negotiate rent to an amount my tenant can pay stating, "the only way you'll be able to collect is by a future collection action, and many times those types of judgments are worth about as much as the paper they're printed on." I say this all to try and drive the point home, a moratorium on evictions is akin to an implicit rent reduction or rent elimination.

joshuamorton 6y ago
To be fair, in many places (including the SFBA) you could get a rent reduction just by asking these last few months. My rent was knocked down significantly because we asked (and circumstances were reasonable), and I know of people on month to month leases who got reductions by threatening to move out.
- Breefield 6y ago
  Anecdote time: My tenant said they were denied unemployment. They never tried to negotiate the rent. After 4 months of nonpayment when Oakland formalized my ability to offer them a "Covid19 rent reduction" which wouldn't affect their lease'd rent price on an ongoing basis I gave them a 20% reduction. 7 months later I still haven't received a dime. I finally decided to look them up on LinkedIn—turns out they used to be a property manager, something I'd overlooked during my background check. I think they just know how long the rope is right now, and how my hands are tied, so they're using the system to their advantage ¯\_(ツ)_/
  - brendoelfrendo 6y ago
    Or... They actually were denied unemployment and their prior employment has no bearing on their current situation except that maybe they understand the fine print a little better? And you going out of your way to make negative assumptions about your tennant is a great example of why people think landlords are jerks?