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> They have remained strong - like steelworkers - because the protections are worth joining Do you think they would join if they weren't forced to join? If so

> They have remained strong - like steelworkers - because the protections are worth joining Do you think they would join if they weren't forced to join? If so why should they be forced to join? This kind of arrangement is illegal in Europe so it isn't required to get high union participation.

germinalphrase 6y ago
They aren’t forced to join. I’m going to be a bit handwavy here: generally - crew members do not work for a specific company, so the problem of a “Union only” job is perhaps somewhat different. Crew members are all functionally contractors for that one specific production. There are no long term contractual obligations. After that production is over, they have to hunt around for their next gig which reinforces the relationship based job economy of Hollywood labor. When a production is kicking, off department heads will be hired (for instance, a Director is Photography) and they will hire the crew members below them in the hierarchy. Many department heads will have their regular group of people they call, and it can be difficult to break into the network. Most people who join a union have experience, training, references, etc which help build those connections. Again, non-union film production happens all the time. The benefits of joining one of the unions are positive enough that most people do, but You don’t have to be in Local 600 to shoot a movie.
- conjectures 6y ago
  Interesting, the gig thing probably promotes unionization, because the membership actually carries some signaling value to the hiring org.
  - germinalphrase 6y ago
    I believe that is to be true.
  - aspaceman 6y ago
    Yes, running a “union gig” or “non-union gig” is a concern of the directors and producers. Union means higher level of talent and skill, but increased costs and bureaucratic pains. Non-union means young, fresh talent (with on average less skill), so they work linger and cheaper.
- username90 6y ago
  They are forced to join if they want to work on the same production set as union members. That kind of forcing is illegal in Europe.
  - walshemj 6y ago
    Not Shure pre entry closed shop is illegal in all European countries.
    - username90 6y ago
      It is a part of EU law, so at least the EU countries.
  - aspaceman 6y ago
    Again, you’re speaking from ignorance alone here. This is only required in some cases. In a “union shoot” as it were. These are rare in comparison to non-union films. Every actor has many examples of non-union films they participate in. Usually big stars work in non-union roles and films to give younger professionals an opportunity. The star provides marketing power for a smaller Non-union production. Then people can join the union as well.
    - username90 6y ago
      > Every actor has many examples of non-union films they participate in. Actors aren't allowed to participate in non-union films. They sometimes do anyway but the contract says they can't. > SAG-AFTRA members cannot accept an acting role in any studio, independent, low-budget, pilot, experimental, non-profit, interactive, educational, student, or ANY production, unless that producer has signed a Contract or Letter of Agreement with SAG-AFTRA. > Members who are found in violation of these rules are subject to serious fines and discipline by a panel of union peers. https://www.sagaftra.org/what-happens-if-i-accept-non-union-work https://www.sagaftra.org/what-happens-if-i-accept-non-union-...
      - germinalphrase 6y ago

germinalphrase 6y ago

They aren’t forced to join. I’m going to be a bit handwavy here: generally - crew members do not work for a specific company, so the problem of a “Union only” job is perhaps somewhat different. Crew members are all functionally contractors for that one specific production. There are no long term contractual obligations. After that production is over, they have to hunt around for their next gig which reinforces the relationship based job economy of Hollywood labor. When a production is kicking, off department heads will be hired (for instance, a Director is Photography) and they will hire the crew members below them in the hierarchy. Many department heads will have their regular group of people they call, and it can be difficult to break into the network. Most people who join a union have experience, training, references, etc which help build those connections. Again, non-union film production happens all the time. The benefits of joining one of the unions are positive enough that most people do, but You don’t have to be in Local 600 to shoot a movie.

conjectures 6y ago
Interesting, the gig thing probably promotes unionization, because the membership actually carries some signaling value to the hiring org.
- germinalphrase 6y ago
  I believe that is to be true.
- aspaceman 6y ago
  Yes, running a “union gig” or “non-union gig” is a concern of the directors and producers. Union means higher level of talent and skill, but increased costs and bureaucratic pains. Non-union means young, fresh talent (with on average less skill), so they work linger and cheaper.
username90 6y ago
They are forced to join if they want to work on the same production set as union members. That kind of forcing is illegal in Europe.
- walshemj 6y ago
  Not Shure pre entry closed shop is illegal in all European countries.
  - username90 6y ago
    It is a part of EU law, so at least the EU countries.
- aspaceman 6y ago
  Again, you’re speaking from ignorance alone here. This is only required in some cases. In a “union shoot” as it were. These are rare in comparison to non-union films. Every actor has many examples of non-union films they participate in. Usually big stars work in non-union roles and films to give younger professionals an opportunity. The star provides marketing power for a smaller Non-union production. Then people can join the union as well.
  - username90 6y ago
    > Every actor has many examples of non-union films they participate in. Actors aren't allowed to participate in non-union films. They sometimes do anyway but the contract says they can't. > SAG-AFTRA members cannot accept an acting role in any studio, independent, low-budget, pilot, experimental, non-profit, interactive, educational, student, or ANY production, unless that producer has signed a Contract or Letter of Agreement with SAG-AFTRA. > Members who are found in violation of these rules are subject to serious fines and discipline by a panel of union peers. https://www.sagaftra.org/what-happens-if-i-accept-non-union-work https://www.sagaftra.org/what-happens-if-i-accept-non-union-...
    - germinalphrase 6y ago