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The batteries. Tesla cars are the worst-built, worst-furnished cars you can buy at their price points. If you care about comfort, ride quality, etc., go with a

The batteries. Tesla cars are the worst-built, worst-furnished cars you can buy at their price points. If you care about comfort, ride quality, etc., go with anything but a Tesla. But Tesla's batteries are industry-leading. If Tesla were to shed their EV-money pit, they'd easily earn their current valuation just by selling their batteries to everyone in the auto and power industries. But by keeping their batteries limited to just their small share of the auto market, they've given their competitors reason to do their own research into battery/EV technology, and it's already starting to hurt them in Europe, where Tesla was outsold by other EV brands/models in several countries over the past few months, and that's without their major competitors having yet brought mass-market EVs to market.

etaioinshrdlu 6y ago
I was in a friend's new-ish BMW recently and I felt the interior had a poorly-built, cheap, plasticky feel compared to Tesla. So let's just say that your opinion is not universal :)
- gamblor956 6y ago
  I've been in poorly-made non-Teslas before as well. But it happens rarely, since most consumers wouldn't accept cars with the fit and finish issues that Tesla owners ignore for the first few months of ownership. After a few months, even the most die-hard Tesla owners I know constantly complain about all the "small" issues that everyone else would have rejected a car for at the lot. I've only been in a properly made Tesla once. And they don't make Teslas that way any more (entirely by hand). Some BMWs do look and feel like KIAs on the inside, especially their lower-end "beginner" luxury models. (That's not a knock on KIA, they deliberately target the low-end market but make up for it with relatively durable cars.)
  - nickik 6y ago
    Tesla have the highest consumer satisfaction so you are exaggerating how much people complain. General its good practice not to accept it until it is perfect, that is true. And in initial quality surveys while Tesla is bad, other luxury cars are not that great.
    - gamblor956 6y ago
      Different surveying companies have different results for their surveys, especially as they measure different things. JD Power, for example, reports that Tesla owners report the highest number of problems and complaints with their vehicles, which is supported by Consumer Reports' owner satisfaction surveys (but CR finds that Tesla owners "forgive" Tesla for these issues and have high satisfaction ratings despite the numerous problems with their vehicles). CA investigations have found that Tesla has the highest number of cars of any brand that would be subject to lemon laws (meaning defects serious enough to require the dealership to take the car back).
      - nickik 6y ago
        Exactly what I said.
jeffbee 6y ago
The only reason Panasonic tolerates the existence of Tesla is that Tesla operates as the global marketing division of Panasonic batteries. If Tesla sheds the EV business then Panasonic will no longer deal with them. The idea that Tesla is fundamentally a battery company is just weird. All of their battery chemistry, technology, and capacity is from Panasonic in one way or another.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  All of their battery chemistry, technology, and capacity is from Panasonic in one way or another. The battery cell technology in current batteries is all Panasonic (i.e., the chemistry, cell container, etc.), but the battery assemblage is all Tesla. That's the stuff related to assembling the cells together into a battery, adding voltage controls, cooling assemblies, etc. As a point of comparison: Porsche's Taycan also uses Panasonic EVs, and has even an even better lap-racing performance than any Tesla, because Porsche's battery assemblage includes extra cooling assemblies that allow the car to be used for extended periods of high performance. While a Tesla can do full speed for 1 lap, a Taycan can do full speed until the battery dies.
- nickik 6y ago
  A battery is more then just a cell, if you don't understand that you don't have a clue about how modern EV work. To hit everything that you need to do from safety, charge and so on, requires massive effort that is located on the pack level. > Panasonic tolerates the existence of Tesla Tesla is the biggest buyer of batteries on the planet and Panasonic should be beyond happy that they are the primary supplier. > If Tesla sheds the EV business then Panasonic will no longer deal with them. What? If Tesla just decided not to do cars? > The idea that Tesla is fundamentally a battery company is just weird. All of their battery chemistry, technology, and capacity is from Panasonic in one way or another. Tesla actually buys cells from Panasonic, LG Chem and CATL. All of these are integrated into Tesla owned and controlled packs that do the overall management. Also, Tesla works much closer with Panasonic then you think. They are not just a costumer, they have a partnership with Panasonic and they make many decisions together. Additionally Tesla has a large internal battery group that builds not just battery cells and packs, but actually they build battery manufacturing equipment. They bought the Canadian Hibar system that specialized in electrolyte filling and they are now Tesla exclusive. Tesla Grohmann Automation in Germany is building dedicated battery manufacturing equipment. Tesla has multiple agreements with research universities, including with Jeff Dahn's lab at Dalhousie University. They are part of the Battery 500 consortium. Plus they have a massive internal group on everything from cathode/anode manufacturing, cell design and more. I agree that it is wrong to say that right now they are a battery company, but that it is 'all Panasonic' is totally wrong. Tesla will be a vertically integrated from cells to EVs.
zeroxfe 6y ago
> Tesla cars are the worst-built, worst-furnished cars you can buy at their price points. If you care about comfort, ride quality, etc., go with anything but a Tesla. Ride quality? The Tesla is by far the nicest, smoothest, and most fun ride I've ever experienced. The in-car tech is pretty awesome too.
- gamblor956 6y ago
  I've ridden in every model of Tesla (owing to a now-former boss who has owned every model of Tesla, back to their first, limited edition Roadsters). If you think Tesla is the smoothest, nicest ride you've ever experienced, then I feel sorry for you. Most luxury cars ride far smoother, and even my 10-year old Camry is a smoother, nicer ride than the Model 3. Teslas are fun, if you have the opportunity to drive them somewhere you can go fast and safely accelerate. Otherwise, they're quite stiff with the handling. Their in-car tech is nothing innovative, and as far as usability, it's far less usable than physical controls. I can control pretty much every function in my car blindly. You can't do that on a Tesla (or any other car with pure touchscreen controls).
  - zeroxfe 6y ago
    > If you think Tesla is the smoothest, nicest ride you've ever experienced, then I feel sorry for you. Aww, thanks.
  - Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
    > Otherwise, they're quite stiff with the handling. Maybe we're using different ideas on "stiff handling", but I don't think the handling is stiff enough. My previous car was a Subaru BRZ, which had super tight handling. I've considered getting a stiffer anti-roll bar installed on my Model 3 to try to bring back a bit of the stiffer handling I liked on my BRZ, but there's only so much you can do when the car weighs 4,000 lbs. Can't exactly make a mid-sized 4-door sedan handle like a 2,800 lb 2-door sports coupe.
- serf 6y ago
  >Ride quality? The Tesla is by far the nicest, smoothest, and most fun ride I've ever experienced. pretty much any automotive enthusiast journal disagrees. Tesla did a lot of things right; ride handling & NVH are not their strengths.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

etaioinshrdlu 6y ago

I was in a friend's new-ish BMW recently and I felt the interior had a poorly-built, cheap, plasticky feel compared to Tesla. So let's just say that your opinion is not universal :)

gamblor956 6y ago
I've been in poorly-made non-Teslas before as well. But it happens rarely, since most consumers wouldn't accept cars with the fit and finish issues that Tesla owners ignore for the first few months of ownership. After a few months, even the most die-hard Tesla owners I know constantly complain about all the "small" issues that everyone else would have rejected a car for at the lot. I've only been in a properly made Tesla once. And they don't make Teslas that way any more (entirely by hand). Some BMWs do look and feel like KIAs on the inside, especially their lower-end "beginner" luxury models. (That's not a knock on KIA, they deliberately target the low-end market but make up for it with relatively durable cars.)
- nickik 6y ago
  Tesla have the highest consumer satisfaction so you are exaggerating how much people complain. General its good practice not to accept it until it is perfect, that is true. And in initial quality surveys while Tesla is bad, other luxury cars are not that great.
  - gamblor956 6y ago
    Different surveying companies have different results for their surveys, especially as they measure different things. JD Power, for example, reports that Tesla owners report the highest number of problems and complaints with their vehicles, which is supported by Consumer Reports' owner satisfaction surveys (but CR finds that Tesla owners "forgive" Tesla for these issues and have high satisfaction ratings despite the numerous problems with their vehicles). CA investigations have found that Tesla has the highest number of cars of any brand that would be subject to lemon laws (meaning defects serious enough to require the dealership to take the car back).
    - nickik 6y ago
      Exactly what I said.

jeffbee 6y ago

The only reason Panasonic tolerates the existence of Tesla is that Tesla operates as the global marketing division of Panasonic batteries. If Tesla sheds the EV business then Panasonic will no longer deal with them. The idea that Tesla is fundamentally a battery company is just weird. All of their battery chemistry, technology, and capacity is from Panasonic in one way or another.

gamblor956 6y ago
All of their battery chemistry, technology, and capacity is from Panasonic in one way or another. The battery cell technology in current batteries is all Panasonic (i.e., the chemistry, cell container, etc.), but the battery assemblage is all Tesla. That's the stuff related to assembling the cells together into a battery, adding voltage controls, cooling assemblies, etc. As a point of comparison: Porsche's Taycan also uses Panasonic EVs, and has even an even better lap-racing performance than any Tesla, because Porsche's battery assemblage includes extra cooling assemblies that allow the car to be used for extended periods of high performance. While a Tesla can do full speed for 1 lap, a Taycan can do full speed until the battery dies.
nickik 6y ago
A battery is more then just a cell, if you don't understand that you don't have a clue about how modern EV work. To hit everything that you need to do from safety, charge and so on, requires massive effort that is located on the pack level. > Panasonic tolerates the existence of Tesla Tesla is the biggest buyer of batteries on the planet and Panasonic should be beyond happy that they are the primary supplier. > If Tesla sheds the EV business then Panasonic will no longer deal with them. What? If Tesla just decided not to do cars? > The idea that Tesla is fundamentally a battery company is just weird. All of their battery chemistry, technology, and capacity is from Panasonic in one way or another. Tesla actually buys cells from Panasonic, LG Chem and CATL. All of these are integrated into Tesla owned and controlled packs that do the overall management. Also, Tesla works much closer with Panasonic then you think. They are not just a costumer, they have a partnership with Panasonic and they make many decisions together. Additionally Tesla has a large internal battery group that builds not just battery cells and packs, but actually they build battery manufacturing equipment. They bought the Canadian Hibar system that specialized in electrolyte filling and they are now Tesla exclusive. Tesla Grohmann Automation in Germany is building dedicated battery manufacturing equipment. Tesla has multiple agreements with research universities, including with Jeff Dahn's lab at Dalhousie University. They are part of the Battery 500 consortium. Plus they have a massive internal group on everything from cathode/anode manufacturing, cell design and more. I agree that it is wrong to say that right now they are a battery company, but that it is 'all Panasonic' is totally wrong. Tesla will be a vertically integrated from cells to EVs.

zeroxfe 6y ago

> Tesla cars are the worst-built, worst-furnished cars you can buy at their price points. If you care about comfort, ride quality, etc., go with anything but a Tesla. Ride quality? The Tesla is by far the nicest, smoothest, and most fun ride I've ever experienced. The in-car tech is pretty awesome too.

gamblor956 6y ago
I've ridden in every model of Tesla (owing to a now-former boss who has owned every model of Tesla, back to their first, limited edition Roadsters). If you think Tesla is the smoothest, nicest ride you've ever experienced, then I feel sorry for you. Most luxury cars ride far smoother, and even my 10-year old Camry is a smoother, nicer ride than the Model 3. Teslas are fun, if you have the opportunity to drive them somewhere you can go fast and safely accelerate. Otherwise, they're quite stiff with the handling. Their in-car tech is nothing innovative, and as far as usability, it's far less usable than physical controls. I can control pretty much every function in my car blindly. You can't do that on a Tesla (or any other car with pure touchscreen controls).
- zeroxfe 6y ago
  > If you think Tesla is the smoothest, nicest ride you've ever experienced, then I feel sorry for you. Aww, thanks.
- Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
  > Otherwise, they're quite stiff with the handling. Maybe we're using different ideas on "stiff handling", but I don't think the handling is stiff enough. My previous car was a Subaru BRZ, which had super tight handling. I've considered getting a stiffer anti-roll bar installed on my Model 3 to try to bring back a bit of the stiffer handling I liked on my BRZ, but there's only so much you can do when the car weighs 4,000 lbs. Can't exactly make a mid-sized 4-door sedan handle like a 2,800 lb 2-door sports coupe.
serf 6y ago
>Ride quality? The Tesla is by far the nicest, smoothest, and most fun ride I've ever experienced. pretty much any automotive enthusiast journal disagrees. Tesla did a lot of things right; ride handling & NVH are not their strengths.

deleted 6y ago

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