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I don't see how this is a problem. My Tesla comes with a key (card) so even if the app might fail, I'll always be able to drive perfectly fine. The card is in

I don't see how this is a problem. My Tesla comes with a key (card) so even if the app might fail, I'll always be able to drive perfectly fine. The card is in my wallet, I just hold my wallet up to the door and get in. Just one of a variety of conveniences is currently down.

Wowfunhappy 6y ago
But why does the app need internet access in the first place to unlock a car over bluetooth?
- cavisne 6y ago
  if your phone gets stolen you can remove the phone as a key, this info needs to be synced back from tesla. It doesn't need internet access to unlock it, but it needs periodic internet access to sync this info.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    Okay, thanks, that makes a bit more sense, but also still the wrong way to handle this. It should work like SSH where the car accepts certain (digital) keys that can be revoked...
    - mrich 6y ago
      How are you going to revoke keys without internet access?
      - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        I was thinking the car would contain the set of acceptable keys. If you get a new phone, the car accepts the new phone's key. If you loose that phone, you set the car to stop accepting that key. Am I grossly misunderstanding something?
        Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
        Yes. You need a way to remotely disable a phone key. Imagine a scenario where you realize you've lost your phone, but you don't have physical access to the car to remove the phone as a key. For example, you've parked your car in long term parking at an airport, then accidentally leave your phone in the airport bathroom and didn't realize it until you were already on the plane. Whoever finds your phone can now steal your car. If you want to use someone else's device to disable your phone's key remotely, the car needs to be able to connect to the Internet to sync the list of authorized keys.
        Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        I don't see how this is more risky than traditional car keys. You've parked your car in the airport parking lot, then accidentally leave your keys in the airport bathroom. Whoever finds your keys can now steal your car. That's not to say that this isn't a problem, but if the only way to fix it is to make access to your car dependent on Tesla's servers, that does not seem like a good trade-off. Especially since if the app can randomly stop working one day, car owners basically required to carry their keys too as a backup, and as discussed, those cannot be revoked.
        fma 6y ago
        I don't own a Tesla, but I hope that you have to unlock your phone to be able to unlock your car? If you left your phone in the bathroom...it should be locked. If it's not locked, then you're going to have bigger issues like someone having access to your e-mail and ability to reset bank passwords, etc... Additionally, if you can disable your phone key remotely using someone else's phone...technically, a hacker who has phished your credentials can also disable your phone key? Scary.
        Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
        > I hope that you have to unlock your phone to be able to unlock your car? Nope. Is that really any different from someone finding your car keys? These days, with every car including a remote, if someone did find your key fob, they could press the panic button on it as they strolled around the parking lot to easily find your car. At least with the Tesla phone key, they'd still have to walk around and try to open up every Tesla on the lot, unless they were able to unlock your phone.
  - fpoling 6y ago
    That info should be synced to the car, not the phone. So requiring periodic connectivity from the phone is a bug, not a feature.
    - bobthepanda 6y ago
      How would it sync to a car that is off?
- dkonofalski 6y ago
  It only needs it to sync the cert that tells the car the phone is authorized as a key. If your cert is still valid, you can still unlock with Bluetooth via your phone. If it's not, it'll try to update and download the cert, fail, and won't let you use Bluetooth.
bmitc 6y ago
Isn't a problem in the sense that a company hypes itself up and markets itself by all these market differentiators, but then when these fail, the company and others just shrug it off and they suddenly become just conveniences? What's the point of having these features in the app if you need to carry a key around all the time due to the app features being unreliable and poorly implemented? How does the card work if the electronic mechanism to read it fails? Do you then need to also carry around an actual key fob? My car, like most modern cars, has a keyless entry fob, but if that fails or the battery in the car completely dies, there is still mechanical entry points to get into the car and start the car.
- modeless 6y ago
  > What's the point of having these features in the app if you need to carry a key around all the time due to the app features being unreliable and poorly implemented? The point is that the key fits in your wallet. It's way nicer to carry, and then the phone gives you the convenience features that you'd usually get from a bulky fob, and much more. The app is anything but unreliable; in fact the keyless entry and walk-away lock features have worked completely flawlessly for me for more than a year (very uncharacteristic of a feature that relies on Bluetooth). An app malfunction is way less likely than my phone being lost or broken or out of battery; those are the more important reasons to carry the key card. If the car battery dies then the key card won't open the door. But the car also can't drive, and that seems like the bigger problem. Your ICE car also can't start with a dead battery, so being able to open the door is marginally useful. In both cases you need to fix the battery before you can drive the car. (Yes, there is emergency access to the battery without opening the door.)

Wowfunhappy 6y ago

But why does the app need internet access in the first place to unlock a car over bluetooth?

cavisne 6y ago
if your phone gets stolen you can remove the phone as a key, this info needs to be synced back from tesla. It doesn't need internet access to unlock it, but it needs periodic internet access to sync this info.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  Okay, thanks, that makes a bit more sense, but also still the wrong way to handle this. It should work like SSH where the car accepts certain (digital) keys that can be revoked...
  - mrich 6y ago
    How are you going to revoke keys without internet access?
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      I was thinking the car would contain the set of acceptable keys. If you get a new phone, the car accepts the new phone's key. If you loose that phone, you set the car to stop accepting that key. Am I grossly misunderstanding something?
      - Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
        Yes. You need a way to remotely disable a phone key. Imagine a scenario where you realize you've lost your phone, but you don't have physical access to the car to remove the phone as a key. For example, you've parked your car in long term parking at an airport, then accidentally leave your phone in the airport bathroom and didn't realize it until you were already on the plane. Whoever finds your phone can now steal your car. If you want to use someone else's device to disable your phone's key remotely, the car needs to be able to connect to the Internet to sync the list of authorized keys.
        Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        I don't see how this is more risky than traditional car keys. You've parked your car in the airport parking lot, then accidentally leave your keys in the airport bathroom. Whoever finds your keys can now steal your car. That's not to say that this isn't a problem, but if the only way to fix it is to make access to your car dependent on Tesla's servers, that does not seem like a good trade-off. Especially since if the app can randomly stop working one day, car owners basically required to carry their keys too as a backup, and as discussed, those cannot be revoked.
        fma 6y ago
        I don't own a Tesla, but I hope that you have to unlock your phone to be able to unlock your car? If you left your phone in the bathroom...it should be locked. If it's not locked, then you're going to have bigger issues like someone having access to your e-mail and ability to reset bank passwords, etc... Additionally, if you can disable your phone key remotely using someone else's phone...technically, a hacker who has phished your credentials can also disable your phone key? Scary.
        Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
        > I hope that you have to unlock your phone to be able to unlock your car? Nope. Is that really any different from someone finding your car keys? These days, with every car including a remote, if someone did find your key fob, they could press the panic button on it as they strolled around the parking lot to easily find your car. At least with the Tesla phone key, they'd still have to walk around and try to open up every Tesla on the lot, unless they were able to unlock your phone.
- fpoling 6y ago
  That info should be synced to the car, not the phone. So requiring periodic connectivity from the phone is a bug, not a feature.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    How would it sync to a car that is off?
dkonofalski 6y ago
It only needs it to sync the cert that tells the car the phone is authorized as a key. If your cert is still valid, you can still unlock with Bluetooth via your phone. If it's not, it'll try to update and download the cert, fail, and won't let you use Bluetooth.

bmitc 6y ago

Isn't a problem in the sense that a company hypes itself up and markets itself by all these market differentiators, but then when these fail, the company and others just shrug it off and they suddenly become just conveniences? What's the point of having these features in the app if you need to carry a key around all the time due to the app features being unreliable and poorly implemented? How does the card work if the electronic mechanism to read it fails? Do you then need to also carry around an actual key fob? My car, like most modern cars, has a keyless entry fob, but if that fails or the battery in the car completely dies, there is still mechanical entry points to get into the car and start the car.

modeless 6y ago
> What's the point of having these features in the app if you need to carry a key around all the time due to the app features being unreliable and poorly implemented? The point is that the key fits in your wallet. It's way nicer to carry, and then the phone gives you the convenience features that you'd usually get from a bulky fob, and much more. The app is anything but unreliable; in fact the keyless entry and walk-away lock features have worked completely flawlessly for me for more than a year (very uncharacteristic of a feature that relies on Bluetooth). An app malfunction is way less likely than my phone being lost or broken or out of battery; those are the more important reasons to carry the key card. If the car battery dies then the key card won't open the door. But the car also can't drive, and that seems like the bigger problem. Your ICE car also can't start with a dead battery, so being able to open the door is marginally useful. In both cases you need to fix the battery before you can drive the car. (Yes, there is emergency access to the battery without opening the door.)