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It's rarely mentioned how explosive hydrogen is and how this is supposed to be mitigated. Another related problem has been solved though: Hydrogen cannot just

It's rarely mentioned how explosive hydrogen is and how this is supposed to be mitigated. Another related problem has been solved though: Hydrogen cannot just be put in a normal tank, it dissipates through Hydrogen bonds which is a quantum mechanical effect.

seph-reed 6y ago
What kind of tank can it be put in? I honestly really appreciate gasoline for being such and incredibly portable source of energy. It gets a lot more hate than it deserves.
- cmrdporcupine 6y ago
  I don't hate gasoline/oil. I hate the stupid things we waste it on and the reckless constant expansion of that use. Our great grandchildren will curse us for wasting this liquid gold on making single use plastics and driving Disney cruise ships around and doing it all so intensely that we f'd up the climate. We will always use it. Just hopefully more judiciously?
beambot 6y ago
Store it in solid-state form via Aluminum Hydride (Alane). Better stability & even less weight. Some fundamental scaling issues yet to be solved, but very much within reach.
- perlgeek 6y ago
  This would be a lot more reassuring if the same (better storage in a bound form) hadn't been promised for at least 20 years, back then being solved in principle, but not being ready for prime time...
  - beambot 6y ago
    You would've said the very same about solar, wind, & grid-scale battery storage even 5-10 years ago. The commitment to scale is what made the "old" technology economically feasible. Incremental advances also played a role. This same equation is playing out for nuclear, Alane, and others. It's a matter of commitment & will -- both of which are gaining momentum.
- cwkoss 6y ago
  How is it less weight? I'm assume this is counting the weight of the pressure vessel, and aluminum hydride reduces the pressure needed to contain the hydrogen?
  - beambot 6y ago
    Aluminum Hydride doesn't require a pressure vessel at all -- hydrogen is released at low pressure through heating -- which dramatically reduces the weight of the system.
outworlder 6y ago
> It's rarely mentioned how explosive hydrogen is and how this is supposed to be mitigated. This is left as an exercise to engineers :) But as a matter of public perception, what about the invisible flame? All it takes is a bunch of horror stories.
Horba 6y ago
Could you expand on; > Hydrogen cannot just be put in a normal tank, it dissipates through Hydrogen bonds which is a quantum mechanical effect. This goes against my understanding of a hydrogen bond.
- blablabla123 6y ago
  Yeah you're right, it's not Hydrogen bonds, it's called "Quantum Tunnelling". Basically it means that an object can pass a potential barrier with a certain probability even if it doesn't have the energy to do so. The effect depends of course the height and width of the barrier, the temperature but also on the mass of the object. (Therefore it's mostly relevant for Hydrogen)

seph-reed 6y ago

What kind of tank can it be put in? I honestly really appreciate gasoline for being such and incredibly portable source of energy. It gets a lot more hate than it deserves.

cmrdporcupine 6y ago
I don't hate gasoline/oil. I hate the stupid things we waste it on and the reckless constant expansion of that use. Our great grandchildren will curse us for wasting this liquid gold on making single use plastics and driving Disney cruise ships around and doing it all so intensely that we f'd up the climate. We will always use it. Just hopefully more judiciously?

beambot 6y ago

Store it in solid-state form via Aluminum Hydride (Alane). Better stability & even less weight. Some fundamental scaling issues yet to be solved, but very much within reach.

perlgeek 6y ago
This would be a lot more reassuring if the same (better storage in a bound form) hadn't been promised for at least 20 years, back then being solved in principle, but not being ready for prime time...
- beambot 6y ago
  You would've said the very same about solar, wind, & grid-scale battery storage even 5-10 years ago. The commitment to scale is what made the "old" technology economically feasible. Incremental advances also played a role. This same equation is playing out for nuclear, Alane, and others. It's a matter of commitment & will -- both of which are gaining momentum.
cwkoss 6y ago
How is it less weight? I'm assume this is counting the weight of the pressure vessel, and aluminum hydride reduces the pressure needed to contain the hydrogen?
- beambot 6y ago
  Aluminum Hydride doesn't require a pressure vessel at all -- hydrogen is released at low pressure through heating -- which dramatically reduces the weight of the system.

outworlder 6y ago

> It's rarely mentioned how explosive hydrogen is and how this is supposed to be mitigated. This is left as an exercise to engineers :) But as a matter of public perception, what about the invisible flame? All it takes is a bunch of horror stories.

Horba 6y ago

Could you expand on; > Hydrogen cannot just be put in a normal tank, it dissipates through Hydrogen bonds which is a quantum mechanical effect. This goes against my understanding of a hydrogen bond.

blablabla123 6y ago
Yeah you're right, it's not Hydrogen bonds, it's called "Quantum Tunnelling". Basically it means that an object can pass a potential barrier with a certain probability even if it doesn't have the energy to do so. The effect depends of course the height and width of the barrier, the temperature but also on the mass of the object. (Therefore it's mostly relevant for Hydrogen)