6 ms·

I honestly do not understand. He said his personal opinions are not going to affect his decisions. And I'm sure he can believe in whatever he wants - in Christ,

I honestly do not understand. He said his personal opinions are not going to affect his decisions. And I'm sure he can believe in whatever he wants - in Christ, Flat Earth and Aliens if he wants. As outsider it looks like in recent years the most vocal shaming is not of gay or fat but shaming of whoever does not participate in shaming. I really hope that these are not true representatives of LGBT community.

joshstrange 6y ago
> I honestly do not understand. He said his personal opinions are not going to affect his decisions. Words are cheap, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think that some employees might not feel that way or trust him to back up those words with real actions. > And I'm sure he can believe in whatever he wants - in Christ, Flat Earth and Aliens if he wants. They sure can and I can choose who I work for. If someone thinks I don't deserve the right to get married (again, people want to gloss over this but he didn't /think/ that, he /thinks/ that) then it's not crazy that I might not want them as my boss and especially at a place like Mozilla that prides themselves on openness and inclusivity. Unlike most companies the employees at Mozilla did feel compelled and safe enough to speak out against their CEO, that doesn't fly at many companies. At a smaller company I worked at I had no protection to call out the president who would always lead the company in prayer before we had a meal even though I'm not religious. I personally think it's encouraging that many gay (and straight) employees did take a stand on this issue. > As outsider it looks like in recent years the most vocal shaming is not of gay or fat but shaming of whoever does not participate in shaming. I really hope that these are not true representatives of LGBT community. Then you haven't been looking and your outsiderness shows. Not all of us live in CA and not all of us are protected by labor laws where we do live. I've seen first hand fat shaming and heard plenty of language/jokes/etc that warned me that coming out would be extremely detrimental to my ability to progress and even do my job at some companies. If you truly believe that the backlash to people who are homophobes is worse than the effects of their homophobia then I encourage you reevaluate that stance. Also I'm not sure what you mean by "shaming of whoever does not participate in shaming", the "shaming" was aimed at the person who supported not allowing gay people to marry and the people who defended someone who supported not allowing gay people. You are describing it as if people were mad at other people for not calling Eich out, no, they were mad at the people defending him.
- sergeykish 6y ago
  > Unlike most companies the employees at Mozilla did feel compelled and safe enough to speak out against their CEO, that doesn't fly at many companies. Why don't they speak last years? Do they support how CEO manages company? If not should we believe employees had any say than? > even though I'm not religious That's the problem, I'd expect if you was the president these prayers would not have a word. Minority who does not understand other minorities. > You are describing it as if people were mad at other people for not calling Eich out No, I am describing people who said not a world of love. Who see only their stance and force it on other people. I by comparison do not care - that's neutral. I am against propaganda and hate speech.
pseudalopex 6y ago
He also said preventing same sex couples from marrying wasn't discrimination. Why should someone trust him not to discriminate when he doesn't know what discrimination is?
- sergeykish 6y ago
  A lot of people already voiced their concerns much better than I can [1]. But I'll try. Because of law. Uber CEO stepped down after a number of scandals. I do not work at Mozilla. What I see is several people ask to leave another because who he is. And I do not see mirror action "please leave because who you are". This is discrimination. Law has not helped that person. He was honest not to lie about his believes. He left the company. I do not know how honest current CEO is. I've heard at least some people left the company because of management actions. I know a lot were fired. I think people hacking source code, helping with bug tracking feel uneasy, I do. [1] Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down” [2014] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7482017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7482017
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    He was asked to leave because of what he did to other people. Not who he is.
    - sergeykish 6y ago
      You sound like it is something not discussed before, murder? Share it, please. I've heard of him peacefully supporting his believes. Is this outlaw? Don't LGBT community do the same? Should LGBT CEOs be fired? Should LGBT employees be fired for what they do?
      - pseudalopex 6y ago
        LGBT people don't campaign to ban heterosexual marriage. Even Eich acknowledges he hurt people.[1] He just thought they should trust him anyway. [1] https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/

joshstrange 6y ago

> I honestly do not understand. He said his personal opinions are not going to affect his decisions. Words are cheap, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think that some employees might not feel that way or trust him to back up those words with real actions. > And I'm sure he can believe in whatever he wants - in Christ, Flat Earth and Aliens if he wants. They sure can and I can choose who I work for. If someone thinks I don't deserve the right to get married (again, people want to gloss over this but he didn't /think/ that, he /thinks/ that) then it's not crazy that I might not want them as my boss and especially at a place like Mozilla that prides themselves on openness and inclusivity. Unlike most companies the employees at Mozilla did feel compelled and safe enough to speak out against their CEO, that doesn't fly at many companies. At a smaller company I worked at I had no protection to call out the president who would always lead the company in prayer before we had a meal even though I'm not religious. I personally think it's encouraging that many gay (and straight) employees did take a stand on this issue. > As outsider it looks like in recent years the most vocal shaming is not of gay or fat but shaming of whoever does not participate in shaming. I really hope that these are not true representatives of LGBT community. Then you haven't been looking and your outsiderness shows. Not all of us live in CA and not all of us are protected by labor laws where we do live. I've seen first hand fat shaming and heard plenty of language/jokes/etc that warned me that coming out would be extremely detrimental to my ability to progress and even do my job at some companies. If you truly believe that the backlash to people who are homophobes is worse than the effects of their homophobia then I encourage you reevaluate that stance. Also I'm not sure what you mean by "shaming of whoever does not participate in shaming", the "shaming" was aimed at the person who supported not allowing gay people to marry and the people who defended someone who supported not allowing gay people. You are describing it as if people were mad at other people for not calling Eich out, no, they were mad at the people defending him.

sergeykish 6y ago
> Unlike most companies the employees at Mozilla did feel compelled and safe enough to speak out against their CEO, that doesn't fly at many companies. Why don't they speak last years? Do they support how CEO manages company? If not should we believe employees had any say than? > even though I'm not religious That's the problem, I'd expect if you was the president these prayers would not have a word. Minority who does not understand other minorities. > You are describing it as if people were mad at other people for not calling Eich out No, I am describing people who said not a world of love. Who see only their stance and force it on other people. I by comparison do not care - that's neutral. I am against propaganda and hate speech.

pseudalopex 6y ago

He also said preventing same sex couples from marrying wasn't discrimination. Why should someone trust him not to discriminate when he doesn't know what discrimination is?

sergeykish 6y ago
A lot of people already voiced their concerns much better than I can [1]. But I'll try. Because of law. Uber CEO stepped down after a number of scandals. I do not work at Mozilla. What I see is several people ask to leave another because who he is. And I do not see mirror action "please leave because who you are". This is discrimination. Law has not helped that person. He was honest not to lie about his believes. He left the company. I do not know how honest current CEO is. I've heard at least some people left the company because of management actions. I know a lot were fired. I think people hacking source code, helping with bug tracking feel uneasy, I do. [1] Mozilla employees tell Brendan Eich he needs to “step down” [2014] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7482017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7482017
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  He was asked to leave because of what he did to other people. Not who he is.
  - sergeykish 6y ago
    You sound like it is something not discussed before, murder? Share it, please. I've heard of him peacefully supporting his believes. Is this outlaw? Don't LGBT community do the same? Should LGBT CEOs be fired? Should LGBT employees be fired for what they do?
    - pseudalopex 6y ago
      LGBT people don't campaign to ban heterosexual marriage. Even Eich acknowledges he hurt people.[1] He just thought they should trust him anyway. [1] https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/