4 ms·

Twitter appears to prefer white people for thumbnails

15 points by whalabi 6y ago

typicalbender 6y ago
I'm guessing the tweets referenced in that article were based off of the original[1] (that I saw). The original tweet series did a bunch of testing with different variations of the same image to attempt to get to the bottom of why the algorithm is doing what its doing. There was also an official response from Twitter[2]. [1]: https://twitter.com/bascule/status/1307440596668182528 https://twitter.com/bascule/status/1307440596668182528 [2]: https://twitter.com/twittercomms/status/1307739940424359936?s=21 https://twitter.com/twittercomms/status/1307739940424359936?...
- whalabi 6y ago
  Hey thanks, I didn't see Twitter's response, I'll update the article.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
nness 6y ago
> Contrast in the area in question has an effect, as might the presence of text, or any blurriness present. This is the argument made on Twitter as well; that its not intentionally trained to prefer white people due to the training data, but instead, the technique used results in a bias. Hypothetically, say, Twitter did multi-variant testing of thumbnails to train the model based on engagement; and this resulted in prefer white faces. That's still a racially biased algorithm. Whether or not your developers specifically set out to create a racially biased algorithm does not change that it is measurably a racially biased algorithm. Twitter's response that there is more work to be done is correct and a relief.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
binarymax 6y ago
With or without the bias, this is a classic misuse of Machine Learning. I don't know a single person who likes that Twitter chooses how to crop and format images. Everyone just wants to choose the visible area themselves, and it's not hard to create a simple UX that would enable this.
- cheph 6y ago
  > I don't know a single person who likes that Twitter chooses how to crop and format images. I have never cared nor noticed. Other things to do with life than fiddle with twitter image upload thumbnails. > Everyone just wants to choose the visible area themselves, and it's not hard to create a simple UX that would enable this. mind citing?
- typicalbender 6y ago
  > it's not hard to create a simple UX that would enable this. This is a gross understatement. The number of different clients that Twitter supports (apis, third party clients/vendors, mobile, etc) means that it isn't a simple problem. Not only that but they have to support different screen sizes and likely have to crop the image differently depending on the device you're viewing the content on. I can without much mental effort understand how this feature comes to be. People spend more time looking at pictures that are interesting and in order to support all of the different screen sizes they decided it was easier for their users to attempt to automatically frame the image.
  - binarymax 6y ago
    So what you're saying is, it's easier to create a magical AI that can decide with 100% confidence the best visual area of the photo, than a UI component?
  - mcphage 6y ago
    Twitter could let you choose a focal point, and then have an algorithm choose the cropping in order to best display the focal point.
    - 6y ago
ruminasean 6y ago
I am a (white) photographer for an organization where I am photographing a bunch of Black people, and nightly one or more of those photographs wind up on Twitter. This would explain some issues with terrible automatic thumbnail choices we've had in the past.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
rbecker 6y ago
The Twitter tech lead is Asian, Asians are over-represented (27% vs US 5.4%) and whites under-represented (42% vs US 61%) at Twitter, yet they didn't even bother checking for Asian-Black or Asian-White bias, only White-Black?
hwoolery 6y ago
The cropping issue is an unsolvable one for AI. It doesn’t matter how unbiased you want the model to be, if an algorithm has to chose between 2+ faces with no “correct” answer, it can’t win. You might just think, why doesn’t it just identify the skin color and crop randomly based on that? Now what if there is two races of men and one woman in the image? Or vice versa? You quickly get into if/else hell. The algorithm can be tuned to no end, but in the end, it’s dealing with an infinite amount of possibilities (not just faces) and it’s a problem that proves Twitter just needs to let the users adjust the crop or focus themselves.
bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago
If this headline is true, by the 2020 definition of the term, Twitter is a white supremacist organization. Actually, this is the case regardless of the antecedent. Computer usage is unevenly distributed across racial groups, so the Internet itself is an instantiation of white supremacy. oops.

15 points by whalabi 6y ago

I'm guessing the tweets referenced in that article were based off of the original[1] (that I saw). The original tweet series did a bunch of testing with different variations of the same image to attempt to get to the bottom of why the algorithm is doing what its doing. There was also an official response from Twitter[2]. [1]: https://twitter.com/bascule/status/1307440596668182528 https://twitter.com/bascule/status/1307440596668182528 [2]: https://twitter.com/twittercomms/status/1307739940424359936?s=21 https://twitter.com/twittercomms/status/1307739940424359936?...

whalabi 6y ago
Hey thanks, I didn't see Twitter's response, I'll update the article.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

nness 6y ago

> Contrast in the area in question has an effect, as might the presence of text, or any blurriness present. This is the argument made on Twitter as well; that its not intentionally trained to prefer white people due to the training data, but instead, the technique used results in a bias. Hypothetically, say, Twitter did multi-variant testing of thumbnails to train the model based on engagement; and this resulted in prefer white faces. That's still a racially biased algorithm. Whether or not your developers specifically set out to create a racially biased algorithm does not change that it is measurably a racially biased algorithm. Twitter's response that there is more work to be done is correct and a relief.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

binarymax 6y ago

With or without the bias, this is a classic misuse of Machine Learning. I don't know a single person who likes that Twitter chooses how to crop and format images. Everyone just wants to choose the visible area themselves, and it's not hard to create a simple UX that would enable this.

cheph 6y ago
> I don't know a single person who likes that Twitter chooses how to crop and format images. I have never cared nor noticed. Other things to do with life than fiddle with twitter image upload thumbnails. > Everyone just wants to choose the visible area themselves, and it's not hard to create a simple UX that would enable this. mind citing?
typicalbender 6y ago
> it's not hard to create a simple UX that would enable this. This is a gross understatement. The number of different clients that Twitter supports (apis, third party clients/vendors, mobile, etc) means that it isn't a simple problem. Not only that but they have to support different screen sizes and likely have to crop the image differently depending on the device you're viewing the content on. I can without much mental effort understand how this feature comes to be. People spend more time looking at pictures that are interesting and in order to support all of the different screen sizes they decided it was easier for their users to attempt to automatically frame the image.
- binarymax 6y ago
  So what you're saying is, it's easier to create a magical AI that can decide with 100% confidence the best visual area of the photo, than a UI component?
- mcphage 6y ago
  Twitter could let you choose a focal point, and then have an algorithm choose the cropping in order to best display the focal point.
  - 6y ago

ruminasean 6y ago

I am a (white) photographer for an organization where I am photographing a bunch of Black people, and nightly one or more of those photographs wind up on Twitter. This would explain some issues with terrible automatic thumbnail choices we've had in the past.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

rbecker 6y ago

The Twitter tech lead is Asian, Asians are over-represented (27% vs US 5.4%) and whites under-represented (42% vs US 61%) at Twitter, yet they didn't even bother checking for Asian-Black or Asian-White bias, only White-Black?

hwoolery 6y ago

The cropping issue is an unsolvable one for AI. It doesn’t matter how unbiased you want the model to be, if an algorithm has to chose between 2+ faces with no “correct” answer, it can’t win. You might just think, why doesn’t it just identify the skin color and crop randomly based on that? Now what if there is two races of men and one woman in the image? Or vice versa? You quickly get into if/else hell. The algorithm can be tuned to no end, but in the end, it’s dealing with an infinite amount of possibilities (not just faces) and it’s a problem that proves Twitter just needs to let the users adjust the crop or focus themselves.

bJGVygG7MQVF8c 6y ago

If this headline is true, by the 2020 definition of the term, Twitter is a white supremacist organization. Actually, this is the case regardless of the antecedent. Computer usage is unevenly distributed across racial groups, so the Internet itself is an instantiation of white supremacy. oops.