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They had a GREAT CEO. Brendan Eich. He not only was heavily involved with destroying IE's monopoly, he was able to start Brave in a punishing market (competin

They had a GREAT CEO. Brendan Eich. He not only was heavily involved with destroying IE's monopoly, he was able to start Brave in a punishing market (competing against Google, Apple, and his own FF) and made it a contender. But, he wasn't woke enough. And for that, everyone will now pay dearly. I daresay, learning that someone else is entitled to a competing view is difficult. Allowing others to have a view other than yours means that you and those you agree with may pay a cost. But the cost of not allowing any other opinion whatsoever to exist other than the one you believe in will eventually have a much much greater cost, in many more places than you would think. Mr. Eich once gave $1K to a cause that was anti-gay. He backtracked and apologized but was cancelled anyways. The cost of losing the only open contender to the spyware that passes as a browser is but a byproduct of the immature view that destroyed FF. It will eventually come back to kill those that think you are not allowed to marry your mother, and probably, eventually, to those that think you are allowed to be religious.

mattl 6y ago
He was the CEO for 11 days, I don't think we can say he was a great CEO of Mozilla.
- coryfklein 6y ago
  For context: > Brendan Eich is [the] creator of the JavaScript programming language. He co-founded the Mozilla project, the Mozilla Foundation and the Mozilla Corporation, and served as the Mozilla Corporation's chief technical officer and briefly, as its chief executive officer. [1] Yes he was only CEO for 11 days, but he literally co-founded Mozilla so it's not like he was only around for a couple weeks. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich
  - mattl 6y ago
    I can only imagine the number of homophobes he could have funded with the salaries they pay execs at Mozilla now.
  - throwaway983249 6y ago
    Eich was CEO for only 11 days, but he was a technical leader at Mozilla when Firefox market share peaked and began its steady decline. He was probably more directly responsible for Firefox product decisions than Baker.
latexmex 6y ago
Please give this a rest and please stop excusing Brendan Eich's homophobia. As a gay man in tech, it is _exhausting_, and this entire tirade reads as a rightwing talking point by someone who is upset that they aren't allowed to have distasteful opinions anymore.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  > Brendan Eich's homophobia All we know is that Eich supported one political movement with money. Show me where he has come put publicly as fearing homosexuals. We are in a dangerous world of viewpoint discrimination. A belief on a particular moral or political issue does not represent the totality of an individual. We all disagree on things; some of us on things we consider core unalienable rights and values. But at the end of the day, we are also all human beings.
  - joshstrange 6y ago
    > All we know is that Eich supported one political movement with money. He supported at least 2, Prop 8 directly and a politician who opposed Prop 8. > A belief on a particular moral or political issue does not represent the totality of an individual. Ahh, ok, so it's perfectly fine to believe that gays should not be allowed to marry while leading a company such as Mozilla? > We all disagree on things; some of us on things we consider core unalienable rights and values. But at the end of the day, we are also all human beings. Sorry, no, you don't just get to "disagree" on if I should exist or have rights such as being able to get married.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      > if I should exist Absolutely no one is saying you should not exist. I hear this phrase a lot and it's pure religious ideology. Everyone exists. Some people may see you differently than you see yourself, but that doesn't mean they deny you exist. We each exist in our own realities, and part of being good human beings is accepting one another while recognizing those differences in our viewpoints and realities. > so it's perfectly fine to believe that gays should not be allowed to marry while leading a company such as Mozilla What kind of company is Mozilla? Is it just about Free Software and an open web? An open web means we need open ideas; and not everyone is going to agree on every idea. Free software needs to be about keeping the software free. We can't start conflating that with every grievance known to man. There is an underlying connection between Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Software that we've somehow lost along the way. > He supported at least 2, Prop 8 directly and a politician who opposed Prop 8. So what? It is literally supporting a political cause. People need to be free to support political causes, even those you may personally disagree with. At one time, supporting gay rights, or saying God didn't exist, or translating the Bible into German were considered horrendous offenses[0]. These people were terrible and those who opposed them were keeping everyone else safe from those corrupt views. Real freedom means being able to talk about and challenge views without fear of oppression by one's government or community. If we can't talk about and rationally discuss ideas and accept people with different moral compasses than our own, then we're in real trouble. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtWrljX9HRA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtWrljX9HRA
throwaway2048 6y ago
I think arguing that Brendan Eich was a great CEO is massively overstating things. A great CEO would have been able to handle the issues he was confronted with. Just because somebody was ousted in a way you feel was unfair, doesn't make them a great leader.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  Well what about the decade of work prior to being CEO? I mean, the guy did create Javascript. For better or worse, it is one of the most popular programming languages in use today.
  - throwaway2048 6y ago
    What does creating javascript have to do with being a great leader?
joshstrange 6y ago
> Mr. Eich once gave $1K to a cause that was anti-gay. And $2.1K to a prop 8 supporter [0] > He backtracked and apologized but was cancelled anyways. This is lie and you are re-writing history. I can find no such statement from him. In fact all he said was he wanted to "express my sorrow at having caused pain" [1], the classic "I'm sorry your were offended by that" non-apology. He has never stated that his support of Prop 8 was wrong, he side-stepped the whole thing expecting us not to notice. > It will eventually come back to kill those that think you are not allowed to marry your mother, and probably, eventually, to those that think you are allowed to be religious What the... no seriously, what the heck? You can believe whatever you want to believe but you don't get to push your religious values onto others which is exactly what Prop 8 did. Please cut out the BS that this is somehow going to lead to outlawing religion. [0] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/new-mozilla-ceo-issues-statement-expresses-sorrow-for-causing-pain/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/new-m... [1] https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/
- sergeykish 6y ago
  I honestly do not understand. He said his personal opinions are not going to affect his decisions. And I'm sure he can believe in whatever he wants - in Christ, Flat Earth and Aliens if he wants. As outsider it looks like in recent years the most vocal shaming is not of gay or fat but shaming of whoever does not participate in shaming. I really hope that these are not true representatives of LGBT community.
  - joshstrange 6y ago
    > I honestly do not understand. He said his personal opinions are not going to affect his decisions. Words are cheap, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think that some employees might not feel that way or trust him to back up those words with real actions. > And I'm sure he can believe in whatever he wants - in Christ, Flat Earth and Aliens if he wants. They sure can and I can choose who I work for. If someone thinks I don't deserve the right to get married (again, people want to gloss over this but he didn't /think/ that, he /thinks/ that) then it's not crazy that I might not want them as my boss and especially at a place like Mozilla that prides themselves on openness and inclusivity. Unlike most companies the employees at Mozilla did feel compelled and safe enough to speak out against their CEO, that doesn't fly at many companies. At a smaller company I worked at I had no protection to call out the president who would always lead the company in prayer before we had a meal even though I'm not religious. I personally think it's encouraging that many gay (and straight) employees did take a stand on this issue. > As outsider it looks like in recent years the most vocal shaming is not of gay or fat but shaming of whoever does not participate in shaming. I really hope that these are not true representatives of LGBT community. Then you haven't been looking and your outsiderness shows. Not all of us live in CA and not all of us are protected by labor laws where we do live. I've seen first hand fat shaming and heard plenty of language/jokes/etc that warned me that coming out would be extremely detrimental to my ability to progress and even do my job at some companies. If you truly believe that the backlash to people who are homophobes is worse than the effects of their homophobia then I encourage you reevaluate that stance. Also I'm not sure what you mean by "shaming of whoever does not participate in shaming", the "shaming" was aimed at the person who supported not allowing gay people to marry and the people who defended someone who supported not allowing gay people. You are describing it as if people were mad at other people for not calling Eich out, no, they were mad at the people defending him.
gamblor956 6y ago
He didn't just make a small donation once. He made a donation to a political campaign that called thousands of people sexual predators in campaign ads because it didn't actually have anything truthful to say in opposition to gay marriage. It was one of the most shameful and disgusting political campaigns in US history. And Eich made his donation after they started running those ads, so he was aware of how his money was going to be used. And that was why it was an issue that he made the donation. Not because he opposed gay marriage (many people did and still do), but because he supported the wholesale slander of thousands of people. If the Prop 8 campaign had been run differently, his support would not have been an issue.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
FireBeyond 6y ago
> It will eventually come back to kill those that think you are not allowed to marry your mother Nice hyperbole there. What next, "LGBT is just a gateway for the pedophiles/people who want to have sex with/marry their dog"?
dang 6y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24564014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24564014.

mattl 6y ago

He was the CEO for 11 days, I don't think we can say he was a great CEO of Mozilla.

coryfklein 6y ago
For context: > Brendan Eich is [the] creator of the JavaScript programming language. He co-founded the Mozilla project, the Mozilla Foundation and the Mozilla Corporation, and served as the Mozilla Corporation's chief technical officer and briefly, as its chief executive officer. [1] Yes he was only CEO for 11 days, but he literally co-founded Mozilla so it's not like he was only around for a couple weeks. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan_Eich
- mattl 6y ago
  I can only imagine the number of homophobes he could have funded with the salaries they pay execs at Mozilla now.
- throwaway983249 6y ago
  Eich was CEO for only 11 days, but he was a technical leader at Mozilla when Firefox market share peaked and began its steady decline. He was probably more directly responsible for Firefox product decisions than Baker.

latexmex 6y ago

Please give this a rest and please stop excusing Brendan Eich's homophobia. As a gay man in tech, it is _exhausting_, and this entire tirade reads as a rightwing talking point by someone who is upset that they aren't allowed to have distasteful opinions anymore.

djsumdog 6y ago
> Brendan Eich's homophobia All we know is that Eich supported one political movement with money. Show me where he has come put publicly as fearing homosexuals. We are in a dangerous world of viewpoint discrimination. A belief on a particular moral or political issue does not represent the totality of an individual. We all disagree on things; some of us on things we consider core unalienable rights and values. But at the end of the day, we are also all human beings.
- joshstrange 6y ago
  > All we know is that Eich supported one political movement with money. He supported at least 2, Prop 8 directly and a politician who opposed Prop 8. > A belief on a particular moral or political issue does not represent the totality of an individual. Ahh, ok, so it's perfectly fine to believe that gays should not be allowed to marry while leading a company such as Mozilla? > We all disagree on things; some of us on things we consider core unalienable rights and values. But at the end of the day, we are also all human beings. Sorry, no, you don't just get to "disagree" on if I should exist or have rights such as being able to get married.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    > if I should exist Absolutely no one is saying you should not exist. I hear this phrase a lot and it's pure religious ideology. Everyone exists. Some people may see you differently than you see yourself, but that doesn't mean they deny you exist. We each exist in our own realities, and part of being good human beings is accepting one another while recognizing those differences in our viewpoints and realities. > so it's perfectly fine to believe that gays should not be allowed to marry while leading a company such as Mozilla What kind of company is Mozilla? Is it just about Free Software and an open web? An open web means we need open ideas; and not everyone is going to agree on every idea. Free software needs to be about keeping the software free. We can't start conflating that with every grievance known to man. There is an underlying connection between Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Software that we've somehow lost along the way. > He supported at least 2, Prop 8 directly and a politician who opposed Prop 8. So what? It is literally supporting a political cause. People need to be free to support political causes, even those you may personally disagree with. At one time, supporting gay rights, or saying God didn't exist, or translating the Bible into German were considered horrendous offenses[0]. These people were terrible and those who opposed them were keeping everyone else safe from those corrupt views. Real freedom means being able to talk about and challenge views without fear of oppression by one's government or community. If we can't talk about and rationally discuss ideas and accept people with different moral compasses than our own, then we're in real trouble. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtWrljX9HRA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtWrljX9HRA

throwaway2048 6y ago

I think arguing that Brendan Eich was a great CEO is massively overstating things. A great CEO would have been able to handle the issues he was confronted with. Just because somebody was ousted in a way you feel was unfair, doesn't make them a great leader.

djsumdog 6y ago
Well what about the decade of work prior to being CEO? I mean, the guy did create Javascript. For better or worse, it is one of the most popular programming languages in use today.
- throwaway2048 6y ago
  What does creating javascript have to do with being a great leader?

joshstrange 6y ago

> Mr. Eich once gave $1K to a cause that was anti-gay. And $2.1K to a prop 8 supporter [0] > He backtracked and apologized but was cancelled anyways. This is lie and you are re-writing history. I can find no such statement from him. In fact all he said was he wanted to "express my sorrow at having caused pain" [1], the classic "I'm sorry your were offended by that" non-apology. He has never stated that his support of Prop 8 was wrong, he side-stepped the whole thing expecting us not to notice. > It will eventually come back to kill those that think you are not allowed to marry your mother, and probably, eventually, to those that think you are allowed to be religious What the... no seriously, what the heck? You can believe whatever you want to believe but you don't get to push your religious values onto others which is exactly what Prop 8 did. Please cut out the BS that this is somehow going to lead to outlawing religion. [0] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/new-mozilla-ceo-issues-statement-expresses-sorrow-for-causing-pain/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/new-m... [1] https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/ https://brendaneich.com/2014/03/inclusiveness-at-mozilla/

sergeykish 6y ago
I honestly do not understand. He said his personal opinions are not going to affect his decisions. And I'm sure he can believe in whatever he wants - in Christ, Flat Earth and Aliens if he wants. As outsider it looks like in recent years the most vocal shaming is not of gay or fat but shaming of whoever does not participate in shaming. I really hope that these are not true representatives of LGBT community.
- joshstrange 6y ago
  > I honestly do not understand. He said his personal opinions are not going to affect his decisions. Words are cheap, I don't think it's at all unreasonable to think that some employees might not feel that way or trust him to back up those words with real actions. > And I'm sure he can believe in whatever he wants - in Christ, Flat Earth and Aliens if he wants. They sure can and I can choose who I work for. If someone thinks I don't deserve the right to get married (again, people want to gloss over this but he didn't /think/ that, he /thinks/ that) then it's not crazy that I might not want them as my boss and especially at a place like Mozilla that prides themselves on openness and inclusivity. Unlike most companies the employees at Mozilla did feel compelled and safe enough to speak out against their CEO, that doesn't fly at many companies. At a smaller company I worked at I had no protection to call out the president who would always lead the company in prayer before we had a meal even though I'm not religious. I personally think it's encouraging that many gay (and straight) employees did take a stand on this issue. > As outsider it looks like in recent years the most vocal shaming is not of gay or fat but shaming of whoever does not participate in shaming. I really hope that these are not true representatives of LGBT community. Then you haven't been looking and your outsiderness shows. Not all of us live in CA and not all of us are protected by labor laws where we do live. I've seen first hand fat shaming and heard plenty of language/jokes/etc that warned me that coming out would be extremely detrimental to my ability to progress and even do my job at some companies. If you truly believe that the backlash to people who are homophobes is worse than the effects of their homophobia then I encourage you reevaluate that stance. Also I'm not sure what you mean by "shaming of whoever does not participate in shaming", the "shaming" was aimed at the person who supported not allowing gay people to marry and the people who defended someone who supported not allowing gay people. You are describing it as if people were mad at other people for not calling Eich out, no, they were mad at the people defending him.

gamblor956 6y ago

He didn't just make a small donation once. He made a donation to a political campaign that called thousands of people sexual predators in campaign ads because it didn't actually have anything truthful to say in opposition to gay marriage. It was one of the most shameful and disgusting political campaigns in US history. And Eich made his donation after they started running those ads, so he was aware of how his money was going to be used. And that was why it was an issue that he made the donation. Not because he opposed gay marriage (many people did and still do), but because he supported the wholesale slander of thousands of people. If the Prop 8 campaign had been run differently, his support would not have been an issue.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

FireBeyond 6y ago

> It will eventually come back to kill those that think you are not allowed to marry your mother Nice hyperbole there. What next, "LGBT is just a gateway for the pedophiles/people who want to have sex with/marry their dog"?

dang 6y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24564014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24564014.