7 ms·

The legal system is absolutely insufficient and there’s no way it can ever not be, but the point is only one party is resorting to mob justice.

Talanes 6y ago
Ballot initiatives are just legalized mob justice, so no.
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  Ballot initiatives aren’t commonly getting random people fired for political wrongthink, so yes.
  - CamperBob2 6y ago
    But they are (attempting to) use ballot initiatives to deny civil rights to certain people, which if anything is worse than getting people fired. Bottom line: if you contributed to Proposition 8, you did a bad thing, and it needs to hurt. Without a feedback mechanism of some sort, the original 'cancel culture' -- the one that brought us the Dark Ages -- will prevail. As a straight white cis-male, I have no dog in the fight. But I know right from wrong, and Proposition 8 was wrong.
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      Proposition 8 did not go through because our legal system was doing its job. That’s the feedback mechanism right there. Now if you set up a ballot initiative to fire anyone who contributed to it, then that’s fair game, but obviously any remotely sane judge will deny it. (Which is also the feedback mechanism telling you you’re proposing something extremist here.) Now, circumventing the law to serve your own arbitrary version of justice? Who the hell do you even think you are? Fucking Batman?
      - CamperBob2 6y ago
        But nobody suggested a ballot initiative to fire anybody. Not everything requires an act of government. Sometimes social pressures are, and should be, sufficient.
        read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        I suggested it, because it would be the correct way to do it, and a good way to realize you’re asking for something extreme. The social pressures you’re advocating are not a weaker form of serving justice. They are stronger. They circumvent our legal system, they’re arbitrary, they’re simply mob justice. No one can keep them in check and indeed they frequently go too far. This is not ok.
        CamperBob2 6y ago
        That's rich, considering the "mob" is only asking for the same rights you and I have. It sounds like you've made up your mind on this issue (or, more likely, had it made up for you as a child), so we'll probably have to agree to disagree.
        read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        The point is that the means used to get those rights are harassing the family members of the opposition and getting them fired. No matter how noble your goal, this is just not how politics is supposed to work in a healthy nation. At all. Quite the opposite, this is analogous to how politics worked when the Soviets killed millions and millions of their own people in order to attain a communist utopia. Do you not see that? > or, more likely, had it made up for you as a child I think I've articulated quite precisely why I have my opinions.
        CamperBob2 6y ago
        Quite the opposite, this is analogous to how politics worked when the Soviets killed millions and millions of their own people in order to attain a communist utopia. Do you not see that? Yes, I see that misusing government power to enforce unequal treatment for a disfavored subgroup is exactly like what the Soviets did. Now that you've steamrolled your own position more effectively than I managed to, we're done here.

Talanes 6y ago

Ballot initiatives are just legalized mob justice, so no.

read_if_gay_ 6y ago
Ballot initiatives aren’t commonly getting random people fired for political wrongthink, so yes.
- CamperBob2 6y ago
  But they are (attempting to) use ballot initiatives to deny civil rights to certain people, which if anything is worse than getting people fired. Bottom line: if you contributed to Proposition 8, you did a bad thing, and it needs to hurt. Without a feedback mechanism of some sort, the original 'cancel culture' -- the one that brought us the Dark Ages -- will prevail. As a straight white cis-male, I have no dog in the fight. But I know right from wrong, and Proposition 8 was wrong.
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    Proposition 8 did not go through because our legal system was doing its job. That’s the feedback mechanism right there. Now if you set up a ballot initiative to fire anyone who contributed to it, then that’s fair game, but obviously any remotely sane judge will deny it. (Which is also the feedback mechanism telling you you’re proposing something extremist here.) Now, circumventing the law to serve your own arbitrary version of justice? Who the hell do you even think you are? Fucking Batman?
    - CamperBob2 6y ago
      But nobody suggested a ballot initiative to fire anybody. Not everything requires an act of government. Sometimes social pressures are, and should be, sufficient.
      - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        I suggested it, because it would be the correct way to do it, and a good way to realize you’re asking for something extreme. The social pressures you’re advocating are not a weaker form of serving justice. They are stronger. They circumvent our legal system, they’re arbitrary, they’re simply mob justice. No one can keep them in check and indeed they frequently go too far. This is not ok.
        CamperBob2 6y ago
        That's rich, considering the "mob" is only asking for the same rights you and I have. It sounds like you've made up your mind on this issue (or, more likely, had it made up for you as a child), so we'll probably have to agree to disagree.
        read_if_gay_ 6y ago
        The point is that the means used to get those rights are harassing the family members of the opposition and getting them fired. No matter how noble your goal, this is just not how politics is supposed to work in a healthy nation. At all. Quite the opposite, this is analogous to how politics worked when the Soviets killed millions and millions of their own people in order to attain a communist utopia. Do you not see that? > or, more likely, had it made up for you as a child I think I've articulated quite precisely why I have my opinions.
        CamperBob2 6y ago
        Quite the opposite, this is analogous to how politics worked when the Soviets killed millions and millions of their own people in order to attain a communist utopia. Do you not see that? Yes, I see that misusing government power to enforce unequal treatment for a disfavored subgroup is exactly like what the Soviets did. Now that you've steamrolled your own position more effectively than I managed to, we're done here.